mothers with young children are the most discriminated against at work

[paddingtonbear1]

I haven't actually found this in my company, and it's very small - only 18 employees. But I can imagine if I looked for another job, I might find it hard to get one, being a mother still under 40. I couldn't believe some of the comments in the 'have your say' on the bbc website though - most people seem to think that women who can't afford to stay at home shouldn't have kids at all! That would be me then! I don't think in this day and age, with mortgages and other rising costs, that's practical. I don't take advantage though, fortunately dd isn't sick very often, and dh does his share.
I think most of the people making the comments were men, or people with no kids...

Oh, and while on the subject of the French - French men do NOTHING round the house. But NOTHING. The number of unemployed men I have seen expect their wives to work, pay the childcare, do the shopping and cooking and be home to make their supper belies belief...

Oh lololol at no Waitrose = medieval

Agree about Xenia's 15.13 post too, very good.

I don't like street markets because it takes hours and hours to do the shopping and carry it home. I have better things to do with my time.

pointydog - have you seen PISA?

there were supermarkets in france last time I looked

all the state schools I knew were very good and had much reputation than the private ones

PISA? Qu'est-ce que c'est?

I sat waiting to see someone at the Portland recently and a "posh" woman came out from a consultation and sat in the waiting room opposite me. She was there with her mother, an au pair (or nanny?) and small boy. She calmly flicked through a magazine gossiping with her mother and leaving the au pair to give any attention on offer to the son. Neither mother nor grandmother took the opportunity of a boring wait at a hospital to spend time talking a four year old. I thought it was an appalling scene and I think this is what Anna might be talking about when she says there are SAHM that don't "bring up" their children.

I can only hope that woman was not at the Portland because she is trying for another. I am sorry, but as a sufferer from infertility problems that kind of thing makes my blood boil.

As an American SAHM living in the UK at the moment, I feel right at home with the mean-spirited comments between working- and SAHMs, but that's where the similarities end. (BTW, I always worked full-time in the US so I can see both sides of this.)

In the US, there is NO guaranteed paid time off to have a baby, as the government leaves this to the fair market system. There's NO guarantee that you will have your job back or that you can work part-time...it's up to your employer to decide this. There are 'good' and 'bad' places for mothers to work, and there's a great magazine, "Working Mother" that honors the best employers for mothers.

I used to envy the UK and other European countries for their generous programs, but now that I live here, I'm not sure the US is so bad. It IS illegal for employers to ask any prospective job candidate about whether they are a mother or plan to become pregnant, as they can only ask questions like, "Is there any reason you won't be able to fulfull the duties of this position as I've laid them out?"

It seems like there's much more discrimination and sexism in the UK than the US too. There are a lot of women on 'Wall Street' in the US, but hardly any in the City, and the US has tons of female lawyers too. Women are much more represented as professionals, and I must add, we also have lots more males in female professions earning good salaries.

I worked at 'bad' and good' companies, but if something wasn't working out, I just found another job and never encountered any discrimination as far as I know.

I thought I'd also work when I came to England with my DH, but with the sexism/discrinimation, I doubt that I will. When we return to the US, I'll pick up where I left off....I hope?

Just my 2p, or 2 cents worth as we say, but the more women who work expect special treatment and the more the government gets involved in this, the more they will be left behind.

Don't missunderstnad me, 'good' companies offer flex-time for ALL their employees whenever possible, and this benefits everybody.

Ladies, let's all knock off hating the 'other side'...working mothers can be better than SAHMs and SAHMs can be better than working mothers, and remember not all of us have a choice in this matter. (I had kids late when I could afford to be home, so we all just do what's best (we think) for each of us in our lives.)

kiteflying - yes, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Women who send their children to the paedatrician with the nanny, women who never get home in time to eat an evening meal with their children and chat about their day, women who take the nanny on holiday so they can go out without the children, women who wear fur coats and cashmere scarves but buy their children's clothes at the cheapest discount stores, women who never go to see the teacher at school... etc etc etc

PISA = comparison study of educational achievements across OECD countries. France doesn't do well

I quite like fur and I prefer a lot of things to spending a lot of time with my five.... I should obviously move to France... ther'es nothing morally wrong with liking a range of activities. I also loved having children and two hours a day with them is lovely, any more is not on for me, intolerable.
I thought I liked French men who dress better and are sexier until I read what you wrote about them so I'll have to stay in England.

expat"the more women who work expect special treatment and the more the government gets involved in this, the more they will be left behind." Yes, my point on this or another thread.

Don;'t like the sound of those toilets... remembering in January in France actually in an all in one ski suit circa 1987 (I am the height of fashion....) trying to use them every day.

Probably best to stay away Xenia - you'd probably find it hard to fake being a submissive wife while totally dominating their husbands, it takes French women years of practice.

That sounds quite hard a combination to pull off.

Yup, told you it isn't all it seems... French women make it all look effortless but actually it's such hard work it doesn't leave them any time to be any fun at all... which is why French men fall for us Anglo-Saxons

lol Scummy - how wrong could I get!

it's still rubbish to say they are really horrible. Ridiculous statement.

pointydog - how many children do you know at school in France? How many schools have you visited recently? How do you explain the massive move in the past 15 years from state to private schools?

I had both English and French schooling in my time and know plenty of children in both today. And I loathe and abhor the French system - brainwashing, not education.

A lot of British parents who move to the French countryside eulogise about it though over here in the English press, all those proper meals, all that traditional rote learning, proper learning of grammar, respect for authority etc etc but that may just be myth over here or it may just be aspects you don't like. I would certainly never want to bring up my children abroad actually. It would be too alien a thing.

Shame that have your say thing is closed now.

A lot of them are complete idiots.

I wonder who ends up covering for the ones who phone in "sick" after a heavy night out or just because they can't be bothered to go to work!

I personally have never had a problem with being a mother, working full time and also doing a professional qualification. According to them my DD should be unhappy etc, so they would be disappointed to find out that the opposite are true. From observation many children with SAH-parents are more clingy & less independent so how is that making them better children?

Whatever we do will always be wrong, it is just annoying!

I can't be the only one who is sick of the sahm and the working mum arguement. Surely it is down the individual parenting and children. There are some women out there who would make terrible sahm and others who would hate to work.

Surely we should be congratulating ourselves on the good job we are doing whatever we decide. Our children will be happy as long as we are happy and they get our love and attention. I really don't understand all this fighting about who is harming their children more.

There's no reason for employers to discriminate against us when we do it to ourselves all the time!

Women are often their own worst enemy in all sorts of situations. I think they differ from each other as much as they do from men.

yadayadayada

change the record Xenia purleeze

At least we'll know what the ultra right conservatives are proposing - forearmed and all that

mishw - I don't know either. But it only takes one inflamatory statement on either side for the debate to get going. We are all afraid of not doing it as well as we can. Good enough parenting isn't good enough any more - seems it has to be damn near perfect.

mishw..i so agree with you. mums can really be each other's worse enemies. why do some women take it as a direct criticism of them if someone else has made different choices. come off it, there aren't any "right" choices - just what's right - or as right as you can make it - for you.
i'm new to mumsnet and, tbh, some of the vitriol spouted is a tad depressing

Hmmm, it can be like that, Stepford . But there are just some topics that just get everyone going. You learn to keep away if you are feeling delicate...