Nurturing Classes in Schools for 5 year olds

[twiglett]

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I read it yesterday and thought that the people in the units were amazing. Those poor kids, some people should have children.

I read it yesterday aswell- it's such a simple idea really, I hope it works. Very interesting about the effect on development of missing out being treated as a baby. My heart bled for some of those poor children.

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I sort of agree, but on the other hand I don't Twiglett. I think that it is more complex than just lack of work. My mother was raised in south wales during the depression. THere was no work and her father dies when she was about 8. The community then was so strong. Politicaly aware and astute, people helped to form the basis of the National Health service via the Miner's welfare associations. Workingmens clubs ran adult education, chapels were built in peoples 'free' time. People under the most grinding poverty built the most amazing society.

Nowerdays, when there is more material wealth there is less stability. Somehow people become impovrished in dreams and aspirations? Sorry I sound a bit like a prat

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Didn't this all begin with the idea that there's no such thing as society. I agree that community and whole family parenting is the most effective way- but I think it's gone- and this is the result for the kids whose parents are unable to parent effectively.

The article made me cry. What I find interesting is at what age do we stop feeling sorry for these children and start feeling hatred for the things that they do? I haven't expressed that very clearly. But I know when I read about/see teenagers behaving in the way described in that article, I don't feel very sorry for them, I'm ashamed to say. But at what point do the feelings of pity etc go and the feelings of distain etc for these 'children' come. I just find it so incredibly sad that people can live like this today, and can treat children in this manner.

I think that is part of it Jimjams.

I think what I was trying to express is that we seem to have people now with a huge poverty of spirit. There are people who don't see that their lives, and the lives of their children, can be better. Now, I'm sure that these people existed when my Mother was a child, but the rest of society would rally round.

And the other thing that seems to be missing is a sense of shame. Not shame at being poor, but shame at not doing your best by your kids. My grandmother was so poor, but she worked her arse off to make sure that her kids were as good as they could be. Some of those parents were happy to let their kids go to the nurturing school, but failed 100% to see that they should be doing the same thing with them. They had abrogated their responsibility. Just so dreadfully sad!

The article made me cry too. That's a good expression hmb: poverty of spirit.

agree with that Sue W- but I guess community (stranger) parenting is good if it means that young kids are too scared to smash up bus stops in front of adults iykwim- which they're not at the moment.

Also agree with you sue but JJ as well. 'Real' supportive community parenting would also be helping the parents to realise that the way they are treating their kids is causing the problems.

What a heart rending article. I'm not sure I agree with all details of it, but I can really see how nurturing groups would work. The success rate, if true speaks for itself. Poverty of spirit - yes I can see that.

I contrast that article with a bingo style competition that ran in our local newspaper called 'shop a yob'. A double page was divided into a grid, with a CTV still of a 'yob' on each square. The yobs were around 10 - 15 years old and had been caught on camera vandalising buses. Readers of the paper were invited to write in to identify them. If you could identify a complete line you won a prize. The accompanying article promoted the view that these yobs needed to be named and shamed, that society would not put up with them, that they were scum and must be punished. I found the game really distastful, really ashamed of my local paper could be so damning about boys and girls, in some cases, hardly out of primary school.

Plumbs new depths that one. I suppose part of it might be driven by the fact that little if anything is done for these kids to help to stop them(and at the same to to help them). Not that excuses this sort of crassness. The only part that I would agree with is that scociety shouldn't have to put up with yobbish behaviour, but there has to be a positive, effective way of achieving that. We could do with some nurturing units in some of the primaries where I live

Tigermoth, could be wrong here, but my mum said something about a paper that had done that, she'dd saw it on the news, and each and everyone of the vandals were caught and the buses have been fine since. Police, the company etc are over the moon. Prize was a camera iirc.
Didnt realise it was in a Bingo format, thats a bit low, but if it really has stopped these kids from trashing the buses and costing the company thousands of pounds then its in the end been a good thing.
They may also think twice about phone boxes, shop windows etc.

I think they are a good idea if it helps children learn to be responsible and social then it can only help them be better parents when it is their turn. It was sad reading some of their stories you would not think it was Britain in the 21st Century it is appalling really

True, but I would like to think that there were more positive ways of making them responsible. It might start with getting their parents to take responsibility for their own behaviour and that of the children.

I think the lives some parents live combined with their past experiences mean that however positive an experience or help they have now teh damage has already been done so without forgetting them it is probable best to help their children and in a way teh children can then educate the parents through example or just by being nice- Sorry i was referring to nutrturing centres and not the bingo idea which I have not heard of before I do not think my last post was very clear about what I was talking about

Sorry I misread your post and thought you were talking about the Bingo.

I agree that the parents are also products of their upbringing and need help and support. The worry that I have is that oncethe children leave the nurturing unit they will 'slip back' if the parents are not on board as well. It seemed so sad that some of the parents still thought that the 'nurturing' was something that only had to happen at school (not all of them of course).

The whole family needs to be supported and nurtured if the circle of neglect is to be broken. Awful to think of the mothers having child after child to get the new ' right' man to stay. Obviously desparate for love themselves.

Yes I agree with you there it seems such a shame that this level of help and support is needed on a formal basis. Although it helps the next generation then it must be worth it

definitely agree that the whole family should be nurtured here. I think it does lots of good seeing how other people's ways of living can benefit your own children.

In a small way, when we stay with our inlaws, watching them pick up on stuff that we let go with our children is very enlightening. They are strict about table manners for instance. I can see my children taking PILs rules and ways of doing things on board. I then go home and adopt some of their ideas.

Charlize, I too wish though that the game element was taken out of the 'shop a yob' idea. The lesson seems to be 'don't get caught' as opposed to 'don't do this because it's wrong'

Actually, I do feel uneasy about any scheme that names and shames teenagers publically. I hate seeing press articles and pictures of teenages who are given anti-social behaviour orders for instance. What does that do for the teenager's self-esteem? does it help turn their behaviour around? It seems such a negative way of tackling the problem - sorry I sound like a wet liberal

oops sorry, charliecat!

I think that people do have a right to know if people in their area are on an anti-social order, so in that respect I wouldn't have a probelm with names and faces being published. I would also want them to have support to turn round their behaviour, but I feel that 'healthy' shame (If you see what I mean) has it's place in getting these kids to turn around. Part of the probelm that they, and we have, is that they don't feel that anyone has the right to curb their behaviour. There has been no family control (or if there is it is patch and sends confusing messages) and the community has been poverless to show these kids that their behaviour is wrong.

I don't think that the faces should be publised for fun, but I do think that people have a right to know who is wrecking their communities. Once identified these people need a lot of help. And who knows the next generation of kids may be put off antisocial behaviour if the rest of society can get its act together.

It's a difficult one, hmb I agree, because the teenagers who get ASB orders have probably caused lots of problems for their neighbours who do feel powerless to stop them. And as you say, I am sure some teenagers come from families where there is no control and the ASB really is a last resort when all else has failed.

I can see the point of handing out leaflets in their territory, so people who've suffered know 'so and so' has an ASB order now. I still don't agree that newspapers, even local ones, should publish names and pictures of these youths. Apart from shaming them, what good does it do? What's the point of me knowing that so and so from an area 10 miles away is now being punished by the courts?

It's fine if the newspapers tell the stories, mentioning that the neighbours have been leafletted with names and pictues of the culprits. That shows these teenagers will be named and shamed to the people who matter most to them - those who already know them well. Hopefully that will put off others from following. I just think that the young age of these individuals means some restraint should be shown in press reports. Labelling them so publically when they are so young can't be good for turning round their behaviour IMO. Though if statistics show otherwise, I'll happily concede there's a purpose to this approach.

Over and above, I agree with you that support has to follow any shaming tactic.