In The Times today: Blind feminism has hurt our children

[twelveyeargap]

Blind feminism has hurt our children

yes of course, dino, but that is not the same as saying it's not an option.

we have a male friend who is a barrister working flexi hours. I think the way he works it is that he dedicates himself to a case, then has a bit of time off, then starts on the next case and so on and so on.

He also took extended maternity leave to help his wife out with the kids!

anyway, i am agreeing with you!

and the more people who pioneer fwas the more it will be accepted as an option which isn't necessarily to the detriment of one's career...

bk - I agree! I think the fact that no men have availed themselves of flexible working at my firm speaks volumes!

I have never met a flexibly working barrister and would be delighted to hear from one, as to how they achieved it.

I have met several, nay tens of, flexibly working female solicitors- all of whom either had to give up this arrangement or gave up completely to look after their kids. Because they were not valued and were not getting the work they wanted. They were treated as timeservers. So how does one combat that? Blaming the people themselves for not pushing hard enough is hardly helpful.

btw - fwas = flexible working arrangements

if you want to change things, pushing hard for change in the workplace is more helpful than doing nothing though, isn't it?

you ask me how to combat the situation you describe - the answer is by hanging in there. now, hanging in there is very, very, very hard and i for one don't blame anyone who can't manage it any longer and gives up. but giving up will only reinforce the status quo as the female partner facilitatest the long hours culture of the male...

having said that i would give up if i could!

but i would retire honourably from the fray after many a battle

definitely; pioneering, revolutionary women could be picketing their employers for more rights. But we have to account for the vast weight of social conditioning too. And for exhaustion, and for the depressive effects of not being valued year after year. Imho this is an issue so much bigger than one of individual activism.

pioneering, revolutionary women could be picketing their employers for more rights

and pioneering, revolutionary men

completely agree with you about social conditioning, exhaustion, depression and the rest! i live it remember

but i don't see a realistic alternative being legislated... or in fact achieved by any other means than by dogged determination.

It is definitely bigger than individual activism.

I just get hacked off and cynical when I read about how many men want to spend more time with their families.

Not enough to do something about it, in the vast majority of cases, though.

I was talking specifically about the women who are leaving the workforce. That's why I didn't mention men. They don't ever seem to get to the point of having to leave do they? And there is the rub.

exactly, dino! i want to punch the radio whenever i hear david cameron saying what a great hands-on dad he is because he does a bedtime story every month or whatever infrequent interval it is.

but anyway, since he totally reminds me of an upmarket version of "tory boy" as played by harry enfield all those years ago, he won't be getting my vote.

I think there are a lot of men who don't want to though. I remember an article in the Standard about a man who had fought for some sort of flexible working so he could spend more time at home (and I think, in the end, did a sort of half week).

The blokes in my office (at the time) took great delight in saying what an absolute wuss this man was and how 'pussy-whipped' he must be etc. etc.

yes, fis, and they hide behind "oh but it simply isn't possible in my job" - b&ll&x.

yes, exactly!

'Pussy-whipped' is what DH gets called by his colleagues too foxinsocks, for leaving client events etc. so he can back for bedtime. He cried at the end of his paternity leave with DS1 because he knew he would be fighting work pressures thereafter for every minute with him. This kind of thing takes a real toll on everyone.

i think that's shocking

I'm no longer shocked by it bk, but if you had told us before we had DS1 how hard it would be for DH we probably wouldn't have believed it.

i am genuinely sorry if you feel i've been getting at you and your personal circumstances on this thread. i have wanted to challenge some of the views you've expressed as generalities, to say that it isn't so in all cases or at least needn't be so - that's all.

what are you studying?

not at all bk! it's all in the spirit of debate. Though I probably personalise everything too much cos I am stuck at home all day with my own mad thoughts (i.e. phd).

It's an extended feminist rant on motherhood and trauma in literature. It's not (entirely) autobiographical.

ok let me take a punt at a couple of texts...

east lynne?
anna karenina?
beloved?
sophie's choice?

how the dead live - now there is a take on trauma and motherhood!