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Petitiion to stop 'Pay As You Go' Driving

149 replies

Radley · 14/02/2007 08:39

Hi All

Please read the below and act upon it asap - deadline is 20 February...

Subject: Tax on Cars

Radio 2 talked about the proposed Road Pricing car tax scheme on the radio.

Apparently there is only one month left to register your objection to the 'Pay as you go' road tax. The petition is on the 10 Downing St website but they didn't tell anybody about it.

Therefore at the time of the comments only 250,000 people have signed it so far and 750,000 signatures are required to stop them introducing it. Once you've given your details (you don't have to give your full address, just house number and postcode will do), they will send you an email with a link in it. Once you click on that link, you'll have signed the petition.

The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it. The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC, the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver. A Stay at home mother who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month.

On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit in time you can probably expect a Notice of Intended Prosecution with your monthly bill.

If you care about our freedom and stopping the constant bashing of the car driver, please sign the petition on No 10's new website (link below) and pass this on to as many people as possible.

petition

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 20/02/2007 14:13

It's just another way for them to line their own pockets. That's my main problem with it, TIBS.

TwoIfBySea · 20/02/2007 14:17

You do wonder which hole in the financial dam they will use the money for.

The only thing that is keeping us in this country is lack of funds, and that is it really. We have had enough.

expatinscotland · 20/02/2007 14:22

Same here, TIBS. Wouldn't even need that much to jack it all in and be out of here, but don't have it.

Yet.

Tortington · 20/02/2007 14:36

ranto thehills - are you suggesting all car drivers are fat fuckers?

RanToTheHills · 20/02/2007 14:37

well,since you mention it,seems to be a slight correlation..

edam · 20/02/2007 15:09

Nadine, that Barbara Castle sure has a long reach then. Given that it was nearly 40 years after she sounded the death-knell that Routemasters actually stopped running... Agree with you about getting rid of conductors btw. Apart from anything else they are guardians of public space just like parkies - the sheer presence of a conductor/park warden prevents or limits anti-social behaviour.

aquasea · 20/02/2007 15:54

I have signed. I think it's outrageous. Just look at the congestion charge in London. Where exactly has all the revenue created from that gone? We were promised better public transport - what a joke. Now they are extending it...but only west! This is a tax that won't make an iota of difference to the rich but will penalise the poor (and the not poor but those who have to watch their money) AND there will be no improvements to public transport. Plus I won't even touch on the tracking issue. Civil liberties are being eroded in this country more and more.

speedymama · 20/02/2007 16:00

Public transport in London is very good in my experience, however, I would like to see conductors back on buses to deal with rowdy passengers.

PeachyClair · 20/02/2007 16:05

You have a point rantothehills- DH would indeed be much thinner if he cycled the 60 miles to work every night

And arrested obv, as the severn bridge is the only way and is a M-Way

but thinner anyway

(although as he's only 10stone and 5' 10" nto sure thats a good thing LOL)

speedymama · 20/02/2007 16:08

Rantothehills was not talking about people like your DH though.

PeachyClair · 20/02/2007 16:10

Oh im missed the and - sorry! Was playing, not being serious!

My opinions on all this are on here elsewhere anyway

ooops

aquasea · 20/02/2007 16:10

Speedymama - do you live in London? I think it's dreadful. There are always delays on the tubes, you can't get on half of them at rush hour as they are so packed... the same goes for the buses and it costs a fortune!

expatinscotland · 20/02/2007 16:14

Also, applying a London-centric policy to the entire island is daft.

speedymama · 20/02/2007 16:17

Yes. Guess what, delays happen on roads too.

Tortington · 20/02/2007 16:49

who are we talking about specifically? is there an exclusion to those of us who travel over 40 miles a day? i doubt it.

Eleusis · 20/02/2007 17:55

Oh no no no no. Don't be silly. They wouldn't give up 40 miles of tax. Just like Gordon won't let the olympics be VAT free. Better to get it from the lottery and skip payments to charities.

PeachyClair · 20/02/2007 19:36

Well saw a headline earlier that this is just a proposal...... what a surprise- lets hope its a discarded one!

Dh already pays a charge to get to work (plus the normal ones)- the severn bridge toll, £5.10 a day. Are they going to double bill us then ?????

We calculated this back along on the proposal figures, and I can't remember exactly but I think his charges (60 miles a day, m way all the way etc) would be about 5% MORE than he earns.

So far from bringing in tax, he'd be claiming benefit- hardly going to be mass job vancancies in a haulage industry hit by this is there?

Yes something needs to be done about congestion / pollution (although I think is about government coffers), but I think the best thing to do would be to start by making a goer of the rail network. The station here closed back in the sixties, yet the town has expanded rapidly since- we even have a Uni. DH might not be able to get to his job by train atm (he works in a trading estate off the mWAY) but he'd use it if he could, I bet students would too, and the many people who commute to cardiff, one of the most congested cities there is.

If I had to commute I would much prefer to travel by trian than car- but there has to BE a train first!

southeastastra · 21/02/2007 08:19

i got a reply from tony blair, it ended up in my junkbox

Eleusis · 21/02/2007 09:04

For anyone who wants to read it (mine also went to the junk e-mail filter so it's worth checking there for anyone who didn't get their response).

E-petition: Response from the Prime Minister

The e-petition asking the Prime Minister to "Scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy" has now closed. This is a response from the Prime Minister, Tony Blair.

Thank you for taking the time to register your views about road pricing on the Downing Street website.

This petition was posted shortly before we published the Eddington Study, an independent review of Britain's transport network. This study set out long-term challenges and options for our transport network.

It made clear that congestion is a major problem to which there is no easy answer. One aspect of the study was highlighting how road pricing could provide a solution to these problems and that advances in technology put these plans within our reach. Of course it would be ten years or more before any national scheme was technologically, never mind politically, feasible.

That is the backdrop to this issue. As my response makes clear, this is not about imposing "stealth taxes" or introducing "Big Brother" surveillance. This is a complex subject, which cannot be resolved without a thorough investigation of all the options, combined with a full and frank debate about the choices we face at a local and national level. That's why I hope this detailed response will address your concerns and set out how we intend to take this issue forward. I see this email as the beginning, not the end of the debate, and the links below provide an opportunity for you to take it further.

But let me be clear straight away: we have not made any decision about national road pricing. Indeed we are simply not yet in a position to do so. We are, for now, working with some local authorities that are interested in establishing local schemes to help address local congestion problems. Pricing is not being forced on any area, but any schemes would teach us more about how road pricing would work and inform decisions on a national scheme. And funds raised from these local schemes will be used to improve transport in those areas.

One thing I suspect we can all agree is that congestion is bad. It's bad for business because it disrupts the delivery of goods and services. It affects people's quality of life. And it is bad for the environment. That is why tackling congestion is a key priority for any Government.

Congestion is predicted to increase by 25% by 2015. This is being driven by economic prosperity. There are 6 million more vehicles on the road now than in 1997, and predictions are that this trend will continue.

Part of the solution is to improve public transport, and to make the most of the existing road network. We have more than doubled investment since 1997, spending £2.5 billion this year on buses and over £4 billion on trains - helping to explain why more people are using them than for decades. And we're committed to sustaining this investment, with over £140 billion of investment planned between now and 2015. We're also putting a great deal of effort into improving traffic flows - for example, over 1000 Highways Agency Traffic Officers now help to keep motorway traffic moving.

But all the evidence shows that improving public transport and tackling traffic bottlenecks will not by themselves prevent congestion getting worse. So we have a difficult choice to make about how we tackle the expected increase in congestion. This is a challenge that all political leaders have to face up to, and not just in the UK. For example, road pricing schemes are already in operation in Italy, Norway and Singapore, and others, such as the Netherlands, are developing schemes. Towns and cities across the world are looking at road pricing as a means of addressing congestion.

One option would be to allow congestion to grow unchecked. Given the forecast growth in traffic, doing nothing would mean that journeys within and between cities would take longer, and be less reliable. I think that would be bad for businesses, individuals and the environment. And the costs on us all will be real - congestion could cost an extra £22 billion in wasted time in England by 2025, of which £10-12 billion would be the direct cost on businesses.

A second option would be to try to build our way out of congestion. We could, of course, add new lanes to our motorways, widen roads in our congested city centres, and build new routes across the countryside. Certainly in some places new capacity will be part of the story. That is why we are widening the M25, M1 and M62. But I think people agree that we cannot simply build more and more roads, particularly when the evidence suggests that traffic quickly grows to fill any new capacity.

Tackling congestion in this way would also be extremely costly, requiring substantial sums to be diverted from other services such as education and health, or increases in taxes. If I tell you that one mile of new motorway costs as much as £30m, you'll have an idea of the sums this approach would entail.

That is why I believe that at least we need to explore the contribution road pricing can make to tackling congestion. It would not be in anyone's interests, especially those of motorists, to slam the door shut on road pricing without exploring it further.

It has been calculated that a national scheme - as part of a wider package of measures - could cut congestion significantly through small changes in our overall travel patterns. But any technology used would have to give definite guarantees about privacy being protected - as it should be. Existing technologies, such as mobile phones and pay-as-you-drive insurance schemes, may well be able to play a role here, by ensuring that the Government doesn't hold information about where vehicles have been. But there may also be opportunities presented by developments in new technology. Just as new medical technology is changing the NHS, so there will be changes in the transport sector. Our aim is to relieve traffic jams, not create a "Big Brother" society.

I know many people's biggest worry about road pricing is that it will be a "stealth tax" on motorists. It won't. Road pricing is about tackling congestion.

Clearly if we decided to move towards a system of national road pricing, there could be a case for moving away from the current system of motoring taxation. This could mean that those who use their car less, or can travel at less congested times, in less congested areas, for example in rural areas, would benefit from lower motoring costs overall. Those who travel longer distances at peak times and in more congested areas would pay more. But those are decisions for the future. At this stage, when no firm decision has been taken as to whether we will move towards a national scheme, stories about possible costs are simply not credible, since they depend on so many variables yet to be investigated, never mind decided.

Before we take any decisions about a national pricing scheme, we know that we have to have a system that works. A system that respects our privacy as individuals. A system that is fair. I fully accept that we don't have all the answers yet. That is why we are not rushing headlong into a national road pricing scheme. Before we take any decisions there would be further consultations. The public will, of course, have their say, as will Parliament.

We want to continue this debate, so that we can build a consensus around the best way to reduce congestion, protect the environment and support our businesses. If you want to find out more, please visit the attached links to more detailed information, and which also give opportunities to engage in further debate.

Yours sincerely,

Tony Blair

aquasea · 21/02/2007 13:30

"Guess what, delays happen on roads too".

LOL. That's totally irrelevant. My point was that the extra revenue created by the congestion charge in London has done NOTHING to improve public transport. Where has all this money gone?

expatinscotland · 21/02/2007 15:26

Mine went to the junk folder, too.

Appropriate place for this type of spin, IMO.

You know they'll go through with it anyway, on the pretext of its being a 'pilot' programme.

Furball · 21/02/2007 15:49

At least we've got a few more years breathing space on this, by that time someone else will be in the driving seat so it probably won't go ahead. I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing but it just means that poor old us the public will have to pay more not only to drive but for our goods in the supermarket for our clothes for everything as it will be passed on to the shopper for sure.

I went on our wonderful train system yesterday and sat opposite a seat with the word cunt and an arrow to the chair etched on the thick dirt of the window can't believe ds didn't pipe up 'mummy what does cunt mean?'

Weatherwax · 21/02/2007 16:10

mine was put straiht in the Trash by my system! PC judgment passed

expatinscotland · 21/02/2007 16:37

To every single ill in the country, they come up with only one solution: more tax.

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