Single parenet benefits proposed to end when youngest child is 11 rahter than 16

[uwila]

Oh this will be popular round here.

here

what about putting those who are on IS as they are unfit to work cos they are drug addicts out to litter pick?personally,i would be more annoyed about taxes going to fund somebody's drug habbit than to allow a mother to care for her child on her own.

I hope none of you pay any attention to the usual propaganda women have had pumped at them for about 200 years in this country that XYZ damage is done to them if they work etc. Just let it flow over you like the rubbish it usually is. Parenst interact with their children more today than 30 years ago even when mothers didn't work because mothers would send childrne out to play then for the day and see them at tea time the studies showed and now even if both parents work they interact with the children for a longer period in the evening after work because there's more a pschological understanding by parents of both sexes that children need that attention. It's got nothing to do with work or not.

I've said elsewhere I would prefer we all got say £200 a week whether we worked or not and as OAPs to remove any benefits stuff so the hard worker juggling children on £21k a year etc below still is getting the same sums as the single mothers or fathers at home on IS. Therefore getting a job would not lose you anything. That "universal income" or whatever people call it might help including those who would like to stay home.

I don't agree that having single parents accept low paid work is bad for them. It often gets them used to the process of getting up, going out, doing work and can lead to promotion or their application for other jobs. Perhaps there's also an issue about mobility here. Those in areas without jobs presumably might consider moving to areas where there is work just as many people in the UK emigrate each year to seek that better life or whatever.

On divorce someone asked if it's more important mothers stay home. Obviously I didn't agree as I carried on working. I didn't feel the children needed me to give up work to deal with their emotional needs. usually there's more not less of an incentive to work after divorce as you're trying to pay for two households out of incomes that previously supported one so in fact many people have to work harder, male and female, not less.

Promotion?

Haahaahaa.

When was the last time you worked a low-paid, dead-end job? Most low-paid jobs are by their nature dead-end.

As for moving, well, let's see.

The big problem I foresee with, 'Hmm, there aren't a lot of jobs here, I think I'll move to [insert larger town/city] so I can make £5.50 at Tesco,' is that housing generally costs A LOT more in areas with lots of job opportunities.

So then you have a low-paid worker in a high-cost areas.

And these high-cost areas, let's just use the city where I live, Edinburgh, have a HUGE problem with homelessness as a result.

Council housing? There's a laugh. Association housing is amalgamated with council so it's all part of the same parcel.

Good luck! Even if you're homeless, the best they'll offer you is temp accommodation.

Moving also costs.

A lot. There are deposits and moving costs and first months' rent.

So we're talking at least a £1000 outlay.

That's a lot of dosh.

Oh, and ever tried to get a job when you're living in another area? I mean, the low paid type?

Good luck!

you beat me to it expat

i did look into moving back down south at the start of 2005(before i got preg with dd2),as there are more jobs where i grew up and i would need to be near my family for support if i were to work.

as a single mum,i couldnt apply for a job while i was living 350 miles away with no prospect of a house to move into,so i looked into council and HA properties,and got told over and over,those that still had 'open' waiting lists predicted a 12 year wait,and you couldnt go on the list unless you'd been living in the area for a year.most private rented accomodation down there was sub-standard,expensive and didnt accept dss tennants anyway.plus i would have been looking at 2-3k for deposit,rent in advance etc.

i couldnt do it.

i doubt many single parents would find it easy to just up and leave to an area with more jobs.

Fck me but this thread is a larf.
Caligula, custy, expat, diva, madamez et al, if it wasn't for you I'd be hanging by the neck in a corner of my office by now. My shitty office that gives me such dignity and purpose - NOT. Litter picking? 11-16 yr olds being ok to leave for a few hrs a day (yeah, right)? Fck me.

COuldn't you camp down on a floor with the relatives in the south whilst seeking work though D?

Yes, Xenia, all our relatives live in spacious 5-bed homes with lots of extra room for an additional family to come and stay with them whilst their low-income relative comes to look for a minimum wage job.

Also, most councils don't class you as homeless if you're living with relatives, so there goes minimum wage single mum's chance at getting the subsidised housing she needs to survive.

Really, this is like teaching a dog to read, because you just don't live on the same planet as most people.

Exactly, Droile. I feel so empowered by these crummy jobs.

They really give me a reason to wake up in the morning, I'm tellin' ya.

90% of the un-tumour-related angst in my life is caused by my job atm. The other 10% is caused by DH whinging about why can't I work more days and get more money. I was much happier when I worked from home and saw no-one, and even happier when I didn't work at all.

I was far happier when I didn't work.

I find work the most overrated crock pitched to capitalist society going.

Quite. The only job I ever loved was doing research from home. Fat chance of getting that ever again. I've tried loads of jobs and hated most of them.

yes xenia,me and my 3 children could have all stayed in my mums 2 bedroom house for 12 years.my kids would really have loved being taken out of their award-winning school and placed in the shithole primary school near my mums house as well.and im sure living with the mother i couldnt wait to get away from would have done wonders for my self esteem.

no,at the time i decided i was better off staying in my lovely 3 bedroom HA house,with my older children attending a brilliant school,for another year or so till ds2 started nursery and i could get part time work,and keep some dignity.

of course,things didnt quite work out like that but thats another story

?And another thing - a rep from One Parent Families was on the radio this morning talking about this. The government's target is to get 70% of lone mothers into the cash economy. Of lone mothers with children over the age of 11, 66% are already in paid work. So is it really worth persecuting the rest of them, for the sake of that 4%??

God, that is such a depressing target. Why the fuck to governments target the already downtrodden as the means to their end?

Xenia ? ?I don't agree. The underclass breed the underclass everywhere on the planet with lovely and notable exceptions from time to time but not in genreal thus we need the middle classes to brred and the encouragement to be things that help them like tax allowances and not things that encourage those whose children are likely to grow up as petty criminals or worse.?

There?s a huge amount of determinism in this opinion, not to mention acceptance ? it is unfortunately common in those who are in denial about the essential exploitation at the heart of capitalism, usually, paradoxically, by those who fair better by the system too. The underclass are not a separate species; a great many, given the opportunity, prove themselves as intelligent and civilised as you and your friends. To tacitly imply the underclass deserve their position in life is an unconscionable untruth. It is simply a rational for ongoing exploitation of those unlucky enough to be born in different circumstances.

"Wouldn't people feel better in their mind if they did just that little bit of something to earn the benefit even if it were just a few hours in an old people';s home taking their small children round to chat to the old people a couple of half days a week?"

No I'm afraid human psychology doesn't work that way. If you are in a happy place, happy with your status and positive about life expectations then studies show people don't mind doing these things. Depression fundamentally alters this perspective though, as does lack of status and agency. It's obviously much more complex, but trying to understadn human misery while being ignorant of the mechanisms that turn behaviour into chronic negative feedback loops is an exercise in simple gloating I'm afraid.

There is a huge amount of data about this, and it's growing. I?m hopeful that it will start to effect policy in future.

moneytrousers said

"There?s a huge amount of determinism in this opinion, not to mention acceptance ? it is unfortunately common in those who are in denial about the essential exploitation at the heart of capitalism, usually, paradoxically, by those who fair better by the system too. The underclass are not a separate species; a great many, given the opportunity, prove themselves as intelligent and civilised as you and your friends. To tacitly imply the underclass deserve their position in life is an unconscionable untruth. It is simply a rational for ongoing exploitation of those unlucky enough to be born in different circumstances. "

I could kiss you, having been born into a family deemed 'underclass' in Xenia's "world"- this paragraph matters to me. A lot.

Xenia, I am all for people working - I really am. I was brought up to believe that taking benefits was sponging.
However, I can't help thinking your approach is hard & possibly based on ignorance of genuine poverty.
As I said before, I'm fortunate. As a single mum I can earn enough to work part-time and I have a live in au-pair. I was also fortunate in that when I got divorced, I had a home I could afford to stay in.
I went to a state school and there was no way on God's earth I was going to leave without decent qualifications as otherwise I would be answering to my mother.
However, not everyone has these opportunities. I am not sure that sending single parents out to shitty low paid jobs is better than them receiving benefits. In neither instance will they be leading the life of Reilly.
Before single parents can go back to work, we need a serious re-think of childcare and also need to improve part-time opportunities and flexible working hours.

I forgot to add - i think part of my work ethic comes from my mum who was also a single parent. She worked full time and her aunt lived with us in an extended family situation to cre for me when i was small.(she developed alzheimers btw and i was a child carer for her) but i think i work because mymum did. she did drop dead of cancer a year after retiring mind and i can't say that she ever got that much of a chance to enjoy being a mum.

I think working for a tiny difference to your income is madness, and only the rich would tout this as a virtue. Yes, that old chestnut, the virtuous poor working their fingers to the bone for their own self respect. Meanwhile most of the rich don't work at all - they just enjoy the fruits of their investments.

Until housing, childcare costs and tax levels are brought within reasonable range of working people, the flight to benefits will continue.

And I feel that this is a social revolution starting to happen, where ordinary working people vote with their feet. If that is all work has to offer, then I want none of it.

And I respect their right to do that until some government can come up with a better alternative.

The thing is, even when they had things like the Speenhamland scheme (where the unemployed had to work doing useless things like building roads that led nowhere, in order to receive their parish relief), the rich still thundered about the outrage of the poor not doing proper jobs and what a waste of money and time it was.

People like Xenia would find other things to complain about about the poor if they worked for their benefits. Like how unambitious they were, why aren't they lining up for proper jobs.

I also wonder why Xenia thinks that people on benefits contribute nothing to society? For one thing, those who are parents of young children are looking after those children, which somebody has to do - the same with those on benefits because they can't work due to caring for an elderly person or someone who is ill or disabled. Also, people who are at home a lot of the time often find themselves doing plenty of favours for neighbours such as letting the gas man in, taking in parcels, looking after other people's kids for a couple of hours.
I agree with some other posters that we need a radical rethink in the whole attitude to work. Far more flexibility in hours would benefit everyone not just parents - most people have other things they need or want to devote time to.
And the bottom line is many, many jobs do not need the amount of hours that the worker is supposed to be at the workplace for. SO much of the 9-6, Mon-Fri working week is time spent reading the paper, gossiping, playing with ones genitals or gawping out of the window: any employer with a brain is capable of learnign that an employee who works shorter hours generally works far harder, gets the job done and then leaves with a smile.

I do think more self-employment and small businesses are to be encouraged as the larger the corporation, the more likely it is that staff get treated as utterly disposable pieces of machinery, worked till they burn out then thrown away.

LOL at playing with one's genitals.

So true, so true. You've obviously worked in advertising, Madamez.

The horrible truth is bad things happen to good people all the time. The rich are no better, just luckier. If they were humble enough to realise that they might not mind spreading their good luck around a bit more.

It's capitalism that needs to be rethought.

It depends on a class system. People like Xenia are only able to rise to the top at the expense of others. There is no rationale to explain it away only delusions, hence we get the deserving poor, meritocracies, etc - all justfications for those more fortunate to exploit those that aren't. There's no opting out of it either, it's too entrenched.

expat, i wouldnt bother posting on here as xenia is baiting you and enjoying it i believe. shes a nutter.

like ive said before, we dont even know that shes a fulltime working parent and lives in a posh estate and looks down her nose at us. praps she is one of us underclass and is just living out her fantasy world

Well a lot of the time she's just airing the prevaling opinions of her demographic, sometimes she says it how it is. But whichever it is there is no reason to accept it as inevitable. People horribly exploiting others is not the only way to run economies.