Single parenet benefits proposed to end when youngest child is 11 rahter than 16

[uwila]

Oh this will be popular round here.

here

I just ran across this quote and thought it appropriate to place here.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle........Winston Churchill

"It just puts them in the same position as most mothers who are married (who in the uK have to work). If we think it's fine for women of under 5s to work then why not fine for those on benefits to work?"

Er, no it doesn't Xenia. Being a single mother is different from being a married mother and I'm surprised that you haven't noticed that. I personally don't think it's fine for women of under 5's or over 5's, married or single, to work if they don't want to and I think our society should be organised so that looking after children is recognised as valuable instead of being regarded as a skive. I can never understand why you're contributing to society if you look after someone else's kid and get paid for it, but not if you look after your own.

Cloudhopper, if your friend is claiming incapacity benefit, she must be disabled, no?

Caligula. No - she isn't disabled. In all honesty, she is very frank about her situation. She is on incapacity because it is the only benefit that a woman can claim which isn't influenced by her partner's salary.

The relationship has been stable for over 4 years now, but is officially on and off depending on the financial situation at the time.

I'm sorry - I am not condemning her, although I probably sound a bit of her looking after her own children. I just think that the system is barmy for rewarding people for nothing and for making work such an irrelevance to standard of living.

But how comes she's able to claim it?

You have to go and convince your doctor that you are actually ill. (A lot of doctors have been a bit lacksadaisical about this in the past, but they are coming under increasing pressure to ensure that patients who are signed off are really ill and not just malingering)

I think you would be surprised how abused this benefit is by people who can claim they are too depressed to work.

I am not saying she isn't depressed at all, but then I know an awful lot of people in work who are on Prozac and god knows what else. I honestly think it goes along the lines of "Build it and they will come". Offer something for free, and people will take you up on it.

I am really conscious that I must sound like a raving right wing maniac. I really don't have a crusade against single mothers or anyone for that matter. I feel that there but for the grace of God go I.

I don't have a problem with benefits. What I do object to is the systematic erosion of the financial benefits of being in work. Work is good for all kinds of other reasons, but you need some kind of financial incentive to bother - not a financial penalty or a bigger risk.

I work and get very little help from the government, my childcare is the equivilant of a mortgage each month, and i think id be better off if i didnt work and claimed.... its a f*cked up system.

Ah yes, the old depression one. It's obviously much easier to fake depression than MS.

if benefits are that good then why don't you go on them?

I don't think that there is any easy answer. To be honest I think it is a disgrace that someone who is lightly depressed is bundled into the same category as someone who literally can't work through serious ill health.

Whatever system you put into place, there will always be people prepared to abuse it.

I think the only answer is to tackle the root of the problem. The more people become aware of what they can claim, the more attractive an option it becomes.

The answer is to make working a better option and a route to a decent standard of living, such that living on benefits is not seen as a lifestyle choice. FOr those who say it isn't a lifestyle choice - yes you're right. It is an awful sod's law kind of choice. People are not doing this because their life is so cushy. They are doing it because the options available to them are all so sodding awful.

can't have it both ways.

either claiming benefits is so financially viable as to make you jealous

or its something else

It isn't a contradiction. Listen, this is actually one of my friends. My mind boggles at the way the system works, but I do not blame her for taking advantage. She doesn't have many options. Nor do I, but that isn't one of mine, that's for sure. Why?

Well in answer to the question, if it is so great, why don't you do it?

Here's my genuine answer. I am too old now to make it work, in my mid thirties. If you are a teenager/early twenties and you bet into the benefits system early, you have plenty of time to get on a housing list, get support with childcare while you go to university. When you get a council house, you need to wait three years to get the right to buy, enabling you to get your foot on the housing ladder.

I wouldn't have time to wait on the housing list etc in order to make it a better option than plodding on.

I don't resent these things when it is someone I know. But I have to question a society where the best way to get a headstart is to get pregnant and a council house.

Listen, I am in ranty mood today - I need to get out of the house rather than sitting on the PC sounding off at a bunch of strangers.

What I would say is that I do apologise if I have offended anyone who is in any of the situations I have described. I realise you cannot ever generalise about this issue. Each and every person has their own story, and much of it out of their control.

I am honestly not a raving right wing loony. I can be very bitter about how life has turned out at times and probably need therapy or something.

i work for a HA and getting on the housing list isn't al that easy can take years of living in shit beofre you can move.

besides getting a secure tenancy isn;t that easy either. most people get an assured - which doesn't give you the right to buy.

and even if you do get the right to buy - surely the point is to sell on ? well if you live in an area nicknamed beirute who the hell is going to buy your house?

my point is that yes, there are some people who are fortunate. however the personal anecdotal isn't the norm ime

I agree custardo. It isn't a great option for most. The years waiting on the housing list is the main reason I can't do it. I am not pretending life is a bed of roses for people who are on it, or those in council housing.

I am over 30, having spent years on peanuts to build a career, having waited as long as possible before having children, having struggled very hard to get the first foot on the housing ladder, to be crippled by mortgage and childcare costs. Having paid off at least 20k of debt on low salaries before we could even do that.

When I saw my friend who has never really had a proper job, who is 10 years younger get a flat bigger than ours, for much less money and looking after her children while I work, it was a bit of an eye opener.

I don't think we are all entitled to a 4 bed house etc. The final irony though was when she started talking about having a third child, because that was the point at which they would be given a bigger house rather than a flat.

I think I just felt a bit cheated that there was a very small return for the years of working hard. I have just either been very very stupid, or a bit unlucky I suppose.

You speak wisely anniemac. This is why I apologise to anyone who I have offended by my comments and for this rather 'scenic' route for the OP.

Life is what you make of it. If you can't be happy in a 2 bed flat with a job, what on earth makes me think that I would be happy on benefits and in a two bed flat?

I think emigration has to be on the cards. Although isn't that a sign of marital problems?

Where in this country are people actually able to get council houses that are 4 bedroom?

B/c I know for a fact they certainly aren't here in Edinburgh.

LOL!

FWIW, many, many councils and HAs have no suspended the right to buy option - for 5 years, a suspension they will probably extend once those 5 years are up - b/c there is so little social housing left to rent.

High tax and high property values = a lot of people jumping ship and moving elsewhere.

An increasing number of people in this country cannot afford to buy anything, at all, ever.