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This CANNOT be true - children being taken away from parents to meet adoption targets??? WTF?

72 replies

CountessDracula · 26/01/2007 13:11

I really cannot believe that this can be true.

LOOK

OP posts:
uwila · 26/01/2007 15:57

Ouch.

And, are you sure? Read the inside of your US passport.

uwila · 26/01/2007 15:57

Do you have to pay that £400 all at once? And how long did the process take?

expatinscotland · 26/01/2007 15:58

Yeah, I read it.

HUNDREDS of people have done it.

Hell, my children have two passports right now.

I work with a bloke who has three, and next year, he's getting a UK one as well.

They don't give a stuff.

There are millions of people in the US right now who have or are eligible for dual nationality.

Both my parents have it, and my dad's a major patriotic type.

expatinscotland · 26/01/2007 15:59

I paid the naturalisation fee, and £40 to the NCS.

Then I paid for the citizenship ceremony, which is mandatory and was run by our council.

Oh, and £34 for the Life in the UK test.

expatinscotland · 26/01/2007 16:00

Three of my first cousins have both US and Indian passports. One lives in India, but he goes to the US twice a year and has never had a problem.

uwila · 26/01/2007 16:06

How many of these people sought citizenship outside the US when they were:
1- already US citizens
2- adults

expatinscotland · 26/01/2007 16:07

My dad
My mother
Two of the three cousins
I personally have 4 close friends who have done it and have gone back and forth with no problems at all.

They don't care.

uwila · 26/01/2007 16:09

Ok... must go see if I can rummage round for spare £400 (ha ha ha)

expatinscotland · 26/01/2007 16:12

I put it on a credit card.

Just got sick of not being to vote, get hold of credit in my name, apply to jobs which require UK nationality, etc.

paulaplumpbottom · 26/01/2007 21:02

Thats news to me. I thought you would lose your citizenship to. Cool. My daughter does hold two but I thought it might be a bit diffrent for her.

Martha200 · 27/01/2007 00:01

Someone in SServices was saying today about the parents who really believe they look after their kids perfectly well and are in tears because of this belief but sadly have a mental illness/simply don't take proper care and so the children are adopted.

martini · 27/01/2007 00:58

I'm really depressed by this thread.

Firstly the article in the BBC says that "MPs have claimed" that children are being taken etc - well to me that says it all. Clearly there is rather a large modicum of doubt if the BBC has to preface it in this way.

I do not believe it for one minute. Social workers are human beings like the rest of us and have the interests of children at heart. The number of steps between a child being taken from its parents to being adopted by another a family are many & complex - this would be an utterly mad way of meeting a target. Much better to just fiddle the figures on the computer.

Secondly I am also totally depressed at the horrible attitudes to Romania.

I lived in Romania for quite a time and almost all of the Romanians that I met loved and indulged their kids wonderfully. Many Romanians would be shocked at the way children are treated here - what about Victoria Climbie or the torso of the child in the Thames?

Romania has come a long way since the orphanages of the Ceaucescu era - maybe its time papers like the Telegraph moved on in their coverage.

martini · 27/01/2007 01:08

I also cannot see the benefit of "naming social workers".

Social workers will be damned if they do take children from their parents and damned if they don't.

If we subscribe to a system of state enforced social care in this country, the least we should do is to support the brave people who's job it is to carry it out. Taking children away from a family is a very very difficult decision for everyone involved.

Sorry to get so cross about this but its an emotive issue ...

SofiaAmes · 27/01/2007 06:11

Uwila, I got my Italian citizenship as an adult. The us has absolutely no problem with it. You just have to use your us passport to enter and leave the uk. It allowed me to vote in almost all (except mp) the elections in the uk! The biggest downside to getting uk citizenship that you shoudl consider is the tax implication of being "domiciled" as well as "resident" in the UK.
My kids have triple citizenship..guess the jew in me always thinks it's handy to have a few escape routes...you never know which might be handy....

SofiaAmes · 27/01/2007 06:14

By the way, don't forget our lovely mumsnetter, Bunglie. Her kids were targetted by social services for adoption and stolen with the aid of Roy Meadows.
Social Services in the UK is a travesty. My own personal experience with SS regarding my step children (who should have been taken from their home) showed them to be nothing but truly shameful.

WideWebWitch · 27/01/2007 07:14

I think the secrecy of the family courts is outrageous too.

paulaplumpbottom · 27/01/2007 08:50

So you are saying that certain children are targetted and then taken in to care?

LunarSea · 27/01/2007 09:18

Martini - they have to "claim", rather than name individual instances, because of the way the family courts work. They literally aren't allowed to reveal the identities of the parties involved, and the parents could be considered in contempt of court by even talking to their MP about it.

edam · 27/01/2007 09:31

From what I know of the response to targets in other public services, this is possible. If your job or your funding depends on hitting the target, some people - esp. those at the top whose careers are on the line - will dream up creative ways of getting there. And that can and has involved putting lives at risk in order to do so, to my certain knowledge.

Thing is, it's hard to increase adoption rates, because most of the kids in care who aren't adopted aren't suitable for adoption. They are 'hard to place' for a variety of reasons. So if you want social services to increase adoptions, they are going to have to find more 'adoptable' children.

While many social workers are well-intentioned and try very hard to make a difference in the face of a system that often seems designed to undermine them - partly to do with endemic staff shortages in some areas - there are others who are not so good. Who make snobbish value judgements about parents, for instance. Who are patronising and define the interests of the child in a way that suits their agenda.

And the family courts are appalling in their secrecy and their hushing up of miscarriages of justice. Look at the invention of Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy and the attitude to expert evidence from people who have never even met the family concerned and who made sweeping, inaccurate statements outside their own area of expertise (Roy Meadows, for instance).

The suggestion by the person quoted in the Beeb article that there's no problem because parents whose children have been adopted don't make official complaints is laughable. There is absolutely no point in making a complaint once you've lost your children - adoption is irreversible as far as the birth parents are concerned. And if you've been browbeaten by officials to the point where you've lost your children, you aren't going to have any faith in the system and you aren't going to make a formal complaint.

edam · 27/01/2007 09:33

Hope MI sees this btw, she has more knowledge than me of the way social services and fostering works.

uwila · 27/01/2007 11:25

Sophia... my pal! How the heck are you? Still in beautiful Southern California.

Is there a difference to my taxes if I am resident vs. domiciled? I thought they got their full entitlement to my hrd earned money just by me being resident. Oh, tell me they can't take more if I am a citizen.

Hey Paula, we could go get our citizenship together and then march down and join the Conservative Party.

PS, Paula, Sophia can be in our clique as she is a Repulican too. Sophia, we are starting a clique of American Republicans on MN, but can you image we are having trouble recruiting members.

expatinscotland · 27/01/2007 21:46

No, you will not be taxed more if you are a citizen.

Not at all.

You will NOT lose your US citizenship.

That whole thing myth about how your children will have to chose a citizenship at 18 is utter rubbish, too.

Not true at all.

Well worth it to get your citizenship. Money well spent as you'll be eligible to live in work in other EU nations.

expatinscotland · 27/01/2007 21:46

My folks are Republicans .

My sister and BIL are, too.

controlfreaky2 · 27/01/2007 21:59

ss cant adopt children. ss can apply to the courts for a care order and a placement order if their care plan for the child is adoption.
a care order cannot be made unless a child is suffering / at risk of suffering significant harm AND it is in the child's best interests that a care order is made. the court has to consider the local authority's care plan and approve the same before making the care order. a child cannot be placed with a prospective adoptive family without either the parents' consent or the court's decision that it in the child's best interests THROUGHOUT the child's life.
parents are entitled to non means tested publicly funded legal representation in care proceedings.
the child is independently represented in care and adoption proceedings (has legal representation and a "guardian" to safeguard cbest interests as these may conflict with views of local authority and / or parents).
the article is ill informed and emotive. of course mistakes are made but the courts ime are fully aware of the serious and draconian nature odf such orders and they are not made lightly.

edam · 27/01/2007 22:02

Yeah, right, and Roy Meadows is an upstanding doctor who was happy to speak up when the questions strayed outside his area of expertise.