How many sick days per year do you think is reasonable?

[Earlybird]

How many sick days per year do you think is reasonable?

I've been following the news of the possible 2 day strike by British Airways cabin crew next week. At this point, BA has cancelled 1300 flights next week in anticipation of the strike going ahead. The dispute is over the policy regarding sick leave policy and pay. The average worker currently takes off 12 days per year due to illness, which is a vast improvement to 15 months ago when, under their old absence policy (and their previous chief executive), the average worker was out due to illness for 22 days per year.

Don't know what I'm expecting people to say, but I'm aghast to think their workforce (accidentally typed "workfarce" ) is so unhealthy - and/or so unhappy - that they have such a large number off work due to illness. Your thoughts?

Here's something from the Evening Standard:

'British Airways cabin crew are to stage crippling strikes over the right to take time off for a cold sore or ingrowing toenails without it counting as sick leave.

Union bosses have drawn up a list of 12 health conditions ? including blocked ears, colds, conjunctivitis and sexually transmitted herpes ? which it says should excuse its members from flying.'

Rubbish at links, but here's my try:

Ingrown toenail, mm., yes it does sound trivial doesn't it.

Ever had one?

They really f*cking hurt. You will end up standing on one leg. W"hich will cause hip problems. Which will cause back problems.

Maybe someone else can do link

www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23382606-details/BA%20crew%20will%20strike%20to%20get%20a%20better%20deal%20-%20over%20sore%20toenails/article.do?expand=true

hmm
it depends on how ill you are surely!

My FIL didn't have a day off sick in 28 years (I kid you not)

I had loads last year due to having a succession of kidney infections and an operation

And a few years ago I had glandular fever and had 4 months off!

I don't, however, take days off claiming to be sick when I am not

This is yet another negative publicity moment for BA. Their PR people need sacking - unless they are MNers in which case keep up the good work.

Too right, colditz. Now try being fobbed out by your GP surgery when you phone for an appointment, then working a 12 hour shift standing and walking round on one.

As for cold sores, sorry, but these people work w/the public. A LOT.

And herpes is a catchy little virus.

The whole field of air travel is not analogous to many other areas of work, so I don't see where all this target-based hogwash is going to fit in.

FWIW, my feeling is 'targets' are usually a crock and counter-productive.

An excerpt from further down in the Evening Standard story:

'BA currently excludes some conditions ? such as diarrhoea and ear and nasal infections ? which means they do not count towards the sick days.'

but coldsores, I thoguht you couldn't catch them unless you happened to kiss a person with a cold sore???

I have flown with BA in the past, I swear none of the cabin crew tried to kiss me.....

The virus can be transmitted from hand to hand contact, fuzzy. They touch the sore w/their hands. You touch their hand.

You inadvertently touch a mucus membrane.

And let's say you've got a cold, or HIV or maybe even nothing at all.

You can indeed contract that strain of herpes virus in such a fashion.

I would suggest, as ex-cabin crew, that BA don't have unhappy or unhealthy employees, but very militant unions and lots of people on different contracts.

As ex-cc, minor ailments tend to be overlooked as sick days; you go on stand-by, and they try not to call you unless they are absolutely desperate. Means a day in by the phone, but it's not like you should be waltzing off anywhere anyway.

Aha, thanx EPIS, now thanking god my work colleague never passed on her cold sores to me....I never knew a hand shake could pass on so much yeuuuk

CD - Am I correct to presume you/your employer would classify your illness as a medical condition? Definitely think that should be treated differently to general, random sickness.

You can also get warts from peoples' hands, too.

And flu.

And cold.

and a lot of other nasties.

Hands are little germ carriers.

Of course it's not a good idea to spend time in an enclosed pressurised cabin with a load of other people when you have something infectious. And some illnesses can't be avoided. But I do think that it is an employees duty to keep themselves as healthy as possible - and that means not drinking too much, getting enough sleep and eating a healthy diet. And that's even more the case if you can't work when slightly ill. It isn't unreasonable to expect an employee not to keep having time off with minor illnesses and if they do, to visit a GP and find out if there's some underlying cause. The HR Dept in our company is very sceptical about the number of Mondays when people call in sick for example but there's bugger all they can do about it. People do swing the lead - and it's unfair on the employer and on their co-workers

Hi all. Just came accross this post and thought you might want to hear the opinion of a real BA "trolly dolly". Firstly, "22 days" has been banded about a lot and I cannot believe this to be accurate. Any average sickness figures include long term illnesses, i.e operations, cancer etc which I feel to be unfair. Also, we are not allowed to fly with many ailments that people in a "normal" job would be able to go to the office with. I flew with a cold years age and ended up with a perforated eardrum!BA has been very clever at what has been recorded in the press. This issue is a small part of a much bigger picture. Have any newspapers reported about how we'll be receiving only 40% of our pension or having to retire ten years later than was agreed by BA itself?
Please, please take what you read in the papers with a pinch of salt. You are only reading what BA want you to. No cabin crew want to go on strike. We love our jobs and simply want to retain the terms and conditions we already have, nothing more.

I think 12 days in this industry is actually pretty good, bearing in mind that there are quite a few ailments you simply can't fly with. People forget (or just don't realise) that this job is a very physical one and it requires excellent health, hence the exhaustive medical one has to pass to commence employment with BA and other airlines.

Also, bear in mind the totally un-family friendly hours that cabin crew work and it should be no surprise that sickness levels are higher than most. Whilst I would not condone taking a sickie for anything other than genuine sickness, I do feel that quite often working mothers/fathers are sometimes backed into a corner, struggling to maintain some sort of normal life where you can attend your childrens's parents evening/simply be at home when your child is sick. The airline I worked for and plenty of others require at least 6 weeks notice of a requested day off, and even then it isn't guaranteed.

That said, BA's sickness policy is better than the national flagcarrier I flew for during the 1990's, whereby if one took time off sick, their Christmas leave would be denied them. For those who had 12 months without any sickness, an extremely generous bonus would fall into their salary at Christmas and you would be presented with a gift from the company! Needless to say, there were occasions when crew flew unfit for duty.

We have a sickness policy whereby you have to have a meeting with the managers after xx number of incidents or xx number of days off. I can't remember off hand what they are.

I know I have had more than that number of days off thouhg - due to an ongoing medical issue. Have been in for the meeting, but not been oput on any formal watch, presumably due to the medical reason. Not sure.

Don't foget that those averages could include someone on long term sick off for 6 months. Averages can be very weighted in such circumsatnces.

We have to have a meeting with our managers after every sickness incident before we are able to fly again. If we are unable to attend they hold it in our absence!(must be nice getting paid to sit in a room and talk to yourself!). About 70% of crew are now having their attendence monitored, including myself. I was signed off for 2 weeks with depression and went straight into "stage 1"

I work for a primary care trust and we have an average of around four days across about 800 staff per year (as in actual sick leave taken). I expect it would be higher in an acute hospital because hospitals are environments with many bugs too, and again you wouldn't want a surgeon who was under the weather, or a nurse carrying infection around the wards. The NHS has very generous sick leave provision, but you have to self certificate and meet with your manager for every episode of illness (even if it's just a day) and visit occupational health if it's felt there is a problem. This BA thing sounds possibly a bit more complicated than presented maybe - we get full pay for the first six months provided that you are signed off work by a doctor, and that time gets counted in in the stats, so even 12 days seems very high to me (although we suspect our rates are lower than they should be because of poor recording).

Just to add people in 9 to 5 jobs don't take sick days over the weekend. Cabin crew do- this will no doubt affect the "average" figures too.

Well one of the reason dh left his old job (working in car hire) it was because the other duty manager was off constantly sick. She would be in work for about a week and then off again for months at a time, each time with a different illness but there wasn't actually anything wrong with her.

Of course this meant dh had to do both jobs, when he was at work, working longer hours because of her and then when he was at home constantly getting phone calls. Yet this woman felt no shame in keeping her full wage (despite the fact they knew she was doing another job part-time for cash in hand!) and even taking her share in the bonus he worked so hard for.

So although I appreciate people can be genuinely sick I do think there are quite a number of people who abuse the sick pay system and because of this why shouldn't there be limits. DH ended up being off for one month due to the stress of what he had to endure, only to have people accuse him of being like her. He left the job before he ended up dead.

About 12 years ago I knew someone who worked in Admin for the Council and she talked about needing to use her sick days up before the end of the financial year so she didn't lose them???

I always had lots of sick days off, well over the average 10 days. This is because I have chronic Asthma. I was also really good at my job, if I say so myself.
I think it is all too easy to discriminate against people who have genuine illnesses, i.e when you apply for a job, you have to state your sickness record, I can see why, but just know how it looks on any application form that i fill out

MrsSpoon, our local council gives their staff something like 14 'sick days' a year.