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We will not let people who spread poison and hate....

63 replies

ProfessorPreciseaBug · 17/06/2016 22:28

I don't know why, but there is something that quite disturbs me about that expession. It makes me feel uneasy and I don't quite know what it means.

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Roonerspism · 21/06/2016 07:15

With zero results! Nothing! The latest attacks are barely reported because no one knows what to do.

Meanwhile, German girls are told to dress responsibly....

GhostofFrankGrimes · 21/06/2016 07:27

It is the politics of hate, fear and ignorance that have got us to this point. It has slipped more and more into the political discourse in recent years. People need to be more savvy and recognise dog whistle/dead cat tactics when they see it.

Cosmiccreepers203 · 21/06/2016 08:08

Ghost is right. I think it is the politics of hate that have got us to the point where we can't discuss cultural differences without being called racists. There are ways and means to tackle the kind of issues that arise when men from different cultures think they can attack western women.
But on the flip side there is a group of people who make it their job to be professionally offended by the wording of discussions, even if it is done quite reasonably and without malice.
Perhaps we all just need to be more sensible and take the pragmatic implications of rhetoric as it is meant and not how we want to hear it.
There should always be careful, reasoned debate on all topics. We shouldn't let inflammatory wording derail it. We shouldn't let people focus so much on the wording that the debate is hard to have. Both attitudes deflect away from real issues.
Essentially just don't be a twat about things.

BeakyMinder · 21/06/2016 09:00

Jesus H Christ, Rooner, I live in Britain. That happened in Germany. I am not going to vote leave because people got attacked in Germany.

ProfessorPreciseaBug · 21/06/2016 15:46

Rooner...
Source please for your comment abut German girls being told how to dress.

Cosmic..
Obviously I never knew of Jo until she was killed. In light of your comment about the politics of hate actually stopping debate, was she part of a movement that sought to prevent anyone talking about the issues that arise when very different cultures mix on the grounds that multiculturalism is the only allowable idea?

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Roonerspism · 21/06/2016 16:11

I don't know how to post links but there was a tonne on this last year.

Check out the local.de from 26/6/15 for an example.

Or post-cologne attacks when the cologne mayor advised local girls not to dress provocatively lest it led to further attacks on them from migrants.

There were several MN threads on this.

Roonerspism · 21/06/2016 16:17

Independent reported 5 January this year about a proposed Code of Conduct for German woman to follow to prevent further attacks. It included travelling in groups and not venturing out alone as I recall.

This was one of the final nails in the EU coffin for me. Woman's rights were flung away. A petition was started but there cultural relativism prevailed.

As a mother of girls, I fear greatly for their welfare in the future

Cosmiccreepers203 · 21/06/2016 16:42

Professor I didn't know about her until she died. However, the memories shared about her from those on all sides of the political spectrum talk about how she sought to cross divides in the name of helping those in need, particularly refugees.
This is where I think having binary ideas about people ( looney left vs hard right) is unhelpful. It seems as though she was killed because some was convinced that her compassion for refugees represented a betrayal of Britain. It really feels like the politics of fear and hate. Pigeon holing people based on one or two pieces of information leads to baseless divisions. I.e.- Muslim= terrorist, Liberal= politically correct, Conservative=selfish. It's not true in the real world. It's only true in the media.

ProfessorPreciseaBug · 21/06/2016 18:47

There are reports that Mr Mair was mentally ill and had asked for help the day before he killed Jo Cox. But he was turned away.

Now as someone who has a few screws loose it is potentially worrying that mental illness could play a part in this tragedy. I know I can blow overly hot every now and then. And I do get a lot more upset about some things than is justified. But so far I have always managed to stay reasonably sensible... (Note the so far) .. But knowing as I do how it becomes possible for someone who is mentally unstable to become isolated from the rest of society I have a sense of how Mr Mair could have got to where he did.

There are hundreds of people in public life who express strong views. And a lot get hate mail. Indeed my MP told me they have had death threats. So far no one else has been killed. It seems this is a tragedy of a mentally ill person as much as anything else.

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Roonerspism · 21/06/2016 18:58

professor I agree. If he was begging for help the day before then he too was completely let down.

Cosmiccreepers203 · 21/06/2016 19:25

I totally agree. But fear is a powerful driver, especially of people who are mentally unstable. He should have been getting the treatment he needed. That was the fault of the over worked and mismanaged mental health services.
However, his rational behind targeting Jo Cox appears to be, in his own words, Britain first. People in certain groups have helped to direct this man's fear and anger towards people like Jo Cox and make them believe that those who sympathise with refugees are traitors.
You are right. He is mentally ill. He could have snapped and killed anyone for any reason. But he chose someone particularly in a very calculated and violent way. He didn't go after a family member or the general public. He went after an MP because of what she stood for.
This is what I mean about dehumanising your enemies. People need to be careful how they portray each other because there are others out there, because of mental instability or other issues, who will take them at their word and be so afraid and angry that they will act out.
I think this blog post sums up what I'm trying to say blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/a-day-of-infamy/

BeakyMinder · 21/06/2016 20:34
  1. Usually, after a terrorist attack people ask how it was allowed to happen and how can we stay safe in future. They don't generally blame the state of mental health services for eg IRA or Islamic terrorist acts.
  1. The accused has allegedly been pictured at Britain First rallies, and we know what inspired him because he told us himself when he stood up in court.
  1. Britain First are, apparently, a legal political party allowed to contest elections. Yet their members are in plain sight all over social media saying the most disgusting racist, threatening things. Remember their candidate for London Mayor, turning his back on Sadiq Khan?

How the hell did we end up in this position? Why are these vile terrorist organisations allowed to exist in Britain today?

NewLife4Me · 21/06/2016 20:40

People who spread poison and hate

Erm, what has DC done since being PM.
Seems it's all right for MP's and the press to do this.

In fact these are the only people I've seen doing this.
Talk about pot calling the kettle black

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