Every school to be an academy?

[CamboricumMinor]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35814215

Apparently this is expected in tomorrow's budget. I'm sure this isn't going to be a good move for school staff but what about the children? I'm not convinced at all.

home

Sorry, I meant if all schools become academies they won't be state funded but privately owned.
Is this not the case? I thought that they were managed by private sector.
I don't understand academies at all.

home
The zero tolerance of disruptive pupils is brilliant and well needed. But there needs to be adequate provision for the disruptive ones to be educated. I know that sounds like a contradiction. But that requires extra funds no "business" is going to want to spend the extra on them?

new life
I'm happy to be corrected by more knowledgable people as quite honestly they confuse me!

But, academies are funded by government, they are given a chunk of money each year to do with as they see fit. It is run as a business so has to produce accounts and employ staff to do those as well as manage the business. head teachers are teachers not trained to run businesses. So although owned by a chain the funding is from the government.

home I'm sure that private schools arent sucessful only because they have longer days and put emphasis on competitive sport.... If that was that easy, I'm sure there would have been a government who would have done that.

Most private schools that have such a good record select their pupils. These are children selected by academic results but also by wealth (ie they are more likely to come from families that are more stable, able to give them support when needed etc...)
Give the same sort of social spread you have in a state school to a private school and I suspect they won't get all the shiny results we see.

My dc is at an Academy. Results are still OK but lower years just have a stream of teachers/supply teachers to cover most if not all of some subjects. Disruption in lessons is normal. And that is from a school with excellent ofsted report.
On the other side, we also have a free school starting (not even sure what the heck is the difference between the free school and an academy, apart from the fact they seem to have even more freedom), and parents are delighted with the way teaching is done. Incl the fact students do the home work at school not at home and the fact the days are longer (so teenagers aren't spending so much tioome at home alone). Downside is longer holidays.

Can't help but be sceptical about all of this. I would like to think that this is for the benefit of children but we all know that this government wouldn't be doing this if there weren't massive benefits to them and their fat cat friends.

They are taking away accountability and handing responsibility for the running of local schools to highly paid bureaucrats, many of whom have no interest in education. Oh and let's not also forget the opportunity to award lucrative contracts to those in charge. The whole thing stinks.

Hopit

Thank you, I understand the position now, but feel another question coming up

Where does the state end and the private companies start?
I mean who is responsible for what and how much input does the LA have, is it just funding?

Strewth.

I left to teach abroad last year with my 3dc.

I saw some of this coming & it contributed to my decision, but this is carnage .

We won't be back until my youngest is 18, that's for sure.

I bet class sizes will be massive eventually. They can basically make up their own rules so will pack ghem on like sardines

Them in

homebythesea
it might be less pronounced if Academies try to emulate the practices of the successful independent schools eg longer day, zero tolerance of low level disruption, emphasis on competitive sport etc etc

More money, longer holidays, kicking pupils out that won't make the grade, smaller class sizes, selecting students based on ability, little or no SEN.

Academy companies get the schools and the LAND they are built on..think on that

That is true but they cannot sell the land or use it for any purpose other than running the school. If any land is no longer needed for the school it will normally return to public ownership. If the academy trust is allowed to retain ownership it has to buy the land at the full commercial price pertaining at the time they buy it. So it is a very unusual and limited form of ownership.

I meant if all schools become academies they won't be state funded but privately owned

Academies are state funded and are owned by charities. They are therefore in the third sector, not the private sector.

The difference between independent schools and state schools is state schools get around £4000 a year per pupil, private schools £10,000 upwards. If the government funded state schools to the same level as private schools then state schools would look very different.

This academies programme is going to cost millions and there is no evidence (in fact the opposite) to suggest that this improves schools. This money would have been better spent in schools, on resources, repairing buildings, and being able to attract and retain teachers.

The zero tolerance of disruptive pupils is brilliant and well needed

But this only exists in academies because there is a state school somewhere mopping up those removed. If there are no more state schools, the academies will never be allowed to do this!

If the government funded state schools to the same level as private schools then state schools would look very different

A recent study into funding showed that there is no link between funding and results. Obviously there is some minimum level of funding below which results will be affected but it seems that once you are above that level further increases in funding do not necessarily produce better results.

there is no evidence (in fact the opposite) to suggest that this improves schools

You may not accept the evidence but to say there is none is clearly wrong.

That white paper is dreadful.

I laughed at the bit where they said they were going to have more textbooks to save teacher workload. No one buys textbooks anymore because the government changes the courses so often.

I wonder who would benefit though. Pearsons? OUP? Who are the CEOs of those publishers-worth investigating. It's probably a chum of GO!

boney I'm not really sure what you were getting at with this

More money, longer holidays, kicking pupils out that won't make the grade, smaller class sizes, selecting students based on ability, little or no SEN.

However independent schools come in all flavours, not all are academically selective (I absolutely take the point that they are socially selective), some actually have excellent SEN provision, and some have class sizes not that different to state schools. My general point is that there are various features of the independent sector that obviously work, and I never see the state sector acknowledging this. Perhaps academies with more freedom might be able to be more open to these ideas.

And I think that academic selection is not all bad - not the 11+ model of yore, but perhaps at 14 where those who obviously get nothing out of the traditional school set up and never likely to "make the grade" (whatever that may be) and who are therefore more likely to be disruptive. These kids could get so much more from learning a trade or job skills and allow those with different skills to get in with their education. But we're going off piste......

I read today that it will cost £700 million to convert all the schools to academies. 82% of LA controlled schools are judged to be good or outstanding, so there's no need. What a massive, disgusting waste of money.

home I somehow doubt that the ones that aren't academically selective, have a huge group of SEN etc... have the same fantastic results than the ones who do.

In my dc's school the disruptive ones aren't always the less able ones. You also have some pretty disruptive children in the top sets.

Fran why is it that transforming state to academies is costing so much money when a lot of the cost is supposed to taken on by the private sector ??

As a result of the proposed changes, I had a long chat with the headteacher of DD's (and soon DS's) school with a view to applying to be a governer.. I just feel I need to be more involved and try to understand this more and also help them to preserve what is an excellent scroll. . Not outstanding according to Ofsted but there is a really caring ethos about the school and they are all about individual progression and viewing the whole child, not just their test results!

Looks like I may not get that chance if that new White Paper is correct... failed before I even started What is happening to education in this country when they are alienating teachers and phasing out parents.. mind boggles!

Ideal part of that cost will be the price of setting up (and for a period, duplicating) existing LA services.

Part of it will go in higher salaries to top managers at new or enlarged academy chains.

Part of it will go on redundancy payments (to LA staff).

Part of it will go into the coffers of private companies, usually related to either academy heads or politicians, who are offering expensive consultancy services to academy schools :)

What will happen to Welsh/ Scottish schools? If all English schools are academy's not following the national curriculum then what happens when they all go to university all over yhe uk? will Scotland and Wales go to academy's to eventually?

The removal of QTS is a set of handcuffs (although not the golden ones Wilshaw wants). Without QTS teachers will not have an internationally recognised qualification that the countries most English & Welsh teachers emigrate to require.

What will happen to Welsh/ Scottish schools

Not affected. Education is a devolved matter. The National Curriculum does not apply in Scotland.