Tony Blair breaks silence....

[ProfessorPreciseaBug]

.. on the referrendum this morning on the Today program.

Given his record of dodgy dossiers and featheing his own nest, I am inclined to do the opposite of whatever he proposes.

He is supporting Cameron.

. I don't do politics, I really really can't abide the behaviours, the the selfishness, the double standards on all sides, the name calling that goes on .....

So my question to those who are interested more than I am, if we leave Europe who or what will provide brakes to govt policies.

...so for example, if an extreme govt ( either left or right) get in, has it cronies in the lords, what will stop them pushing through extreme legislation? Europe does provide protection of sorts with human rights act, working hours directive etc etc.

I would like a reasoned answer please and if anyone wishes to come along and tell me I'm stupid or whatever don't waste your effort.

Love that Bette Davis quote! Why on earth would anyone seek out the opinion of Blair: the greedy, warmongering, lying bastard? Just writing the fuckers name is depressing. An establishment attempt to rehabilitate him no doubt..

if we leave Europe who or what will provide brakes to govt policies.

The electorate.

Which is a hell of a lot more democratic than the current system.

Plus the House of Lords, the judicial system...

^^ if only that were sufficient, Bill. I look at the 3 most widely quoted factors which have allegedly led to the demise of the UK over past 20 years:

1. lack of basic infrastructural development in schools, healthcare, transportation, and house building to align with increase in immigration even though Tony deliberately went against the policy of every other country to ensure UK was the most attractive country in EU for migration for the first 7 years

2. phenomenal increase in house prices excepting North, disproportionate to wage growth, linked slightly to point 1) and yet actively inflated through tax breaks left right and centre for any owner occupiers and economic mismanagement in general;

3. bail out of pretty much the entire UK banking system which was so badly regulated it (and consequently) taxpayers who were not in debt suffered more than any other part of Europe (widespread sense).

Bonus points for expenses fiddling where the UK politicians are no rosier than EU.

In summary, to me, the UK "Brexit" arguments seem largely driven by a situation created directly by UK politicians, accompanied by a fluffy whine of xenophobia.

I do certainly believe the relationship between UK and EU should be reformed.

This does not imply that the UK political system is fit to successfully manage the interests of the British people...history suggests completely the opposite.

IMHO.

Tony was voted in 3 times. By the time he left, UK was close to bankrupt, he had amassed a multi-bazillion London property portfolio and at least one human genuinely believed he could broker peace in the Middle East.

I actually had to laugh out loud as I typed that . Because it's so unfunny it's ridiculous.

It's people like Tony who should remind us all how critical it is to remain in the EU. Not because of what he says...because of what he did.

QueenElizardbeth I think you've hit on what is the hole-in-the-heart of democratic politics there.

Most people are unwilling to subject those who are appealing for their votes to the kind of scrutiny that will lead to a healthy decision making process. Either they can't be bothered to find out what politicians intend, or they think they're all the same and that nothing ever changes. Or they find the whole process difficult. Therefore people tend not to weigh up the options available, but they are more inclined to make a gut decision, or an emotive response, to an emotive idea/slogan. Or (in the USA this is really evident IMO) to buy into a flashy package that contains they know not what. Most people fortunate enough to have votes are quite happy to wish for someone with style to cope with the problems of politics without bothering them too much about it. To get on with the dirty, boring business and conceal as much about it as possible so that they can get on with their private lives. It's quite understandable. .My prediction is that Britain will vote to stay in Europe. Simply because it suits elite interests to stay in. America for one...

I do certainly believe the relationship between UK and EU should be reformed.

How, when the UK has so little influence in the EU?

In summary, to me, the UK "Brexit" arguments seem largely driven by a situation created directly by UK politicians, accompanied by a fluffy whine of xenophobia

One politician, one politician whose wicked assault on the UK population and his legacy is in full flight.

Many changes to the benefits system are purely to make us less attractive to the poorer countries of the EU.

Has any other politician ever done so much damage to the UK?
Now you want us to suffer MORE because of Blair and keep us in? No!

OUT OUT OUT.

Then no further man like Blair can damage us again by using the peoples of very poor countries as a weapon to punish the RIGHT IN THE COUNTRY. And thereby punish us all.

OUT.

Thelwell....but membership of the EU didn't prevent any of those things happening either.

I agree cost of housing compared to stagnating wages is a big problem, but it's one that a large contributing factor to is a rapidly growing population and plentiful cheap labour prepared to live in awful conditions for low wages - much of which comes from the EU.

I can't believe a word Tony Blair says. How did he fool everyone for so long? Still does. In his cushy little jobs in Europe etc. Yuk!

All the spin and propaganda being thrown about by each side is making my head spin. The more I hear the less I trust either side. Last week we had the queen allegedly on the 'out' this week we have Tony on the 'in' side. Won't be long before there's a couple of celebs being wheeled out. Oh yes let's vote to stay in because Cheryl Fernandez Pain says so.

We need proper debate and facts not spin and a tit for tat game of in/ out.

My question would be "What did Tony Blair do that is any different from the rest of them?"

My question would be "What did Tony Blair do that is any different from the rest of them?"
He lied.
Most of them lie, but he sent us to war based on a blatant lie.
Our young men and women died as a result.
He should be tried for war crimes.

Eve

If we left the EU we would be able to govern ourselves.
The brake we would have on extreme right or left policies would be our Parliament, composed of MPs of varying persuasions, elected by us, the people.
Instead, we currently have the situation where the majority of our laws are made by unelected unaccountable people we have no control over.

Source : fullfact.org/europe/two-thirds-uk-law-made-eu/

You have to remember that we would continue to have human rights acts, working time directives, laws etc, just that they would be decided by the people WE choose, hopefully with some stripping of some of the red tape that stopped our own government deporting known terrorist sympathisers.
When we are forced to take things to the EU Courts, our success rate is only 23%. They overturn 77% of our decisions.

Source : www.express.co.uk/news/uk/648899/Britain-loses-most-cases-taken-to-European-Court-EU-referendum-Vote-Leave-Gove

Did you know that the UK sometimes votes against the EU in Brussels? We lose. Every time. Our position means nothing. Apologies for Mail link

Source : www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2588764/Britain-lost-EVERY-attempt-stop-draconian-new-laws-Brussels.html

We increasingly disagree with the EU but our hands are tied

Source : www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/nov/02/is-uk-winner-or-loser-european-council

Cameron's supposed renegotiations on irrelevant areas of EU policy have achieved nothing.

Source : www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2016/feb/10/introducing-camerons-eu-red-card-limited-impact

I shall end with this from 2010
Ignore the fact it's 6 years old and ignore the fact that it's Farage saying it all - but it's true.

Right, back to work

Good old Tony - the best weapon the OUT campaign has as he backs remaining in a corrupt undemocratic 'trade' organisation.

Always nice to see a Labour millionaire Campaigning For Cameron, along with Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, international banks, big corporations (some of whom pay very little tax in the UK), hedge funds, failed UK politicians and captains of industry.

Meanwhile Cameron announces today in Felixstowe that we have 100 days to save this great country.

Gimme a break Dave. If a LEAVE vote would so devastating to this country so shouldn't be offering us the one. But you know it wouldn't be devastating at all.

So Cameron, stop running around this country trying to persuade the British people to give away their country to a foreign power and start trying to govern it properly. If you don't want to then step aside and let some other person who could.

Did some one just say Farages quotes were quality?! And this is why the right wing racism is raising! Hell anyone that thinks Farage is capable of uttering anything of quality or substance is fooling themselves!

Absolutely not a fan of mr Blair but God help this country if people think Farage is any better!

Eve

So my question to those who are interested more than I am, if we leave Europe who or what will provide brakes to govt policies

The British electorate.

The EU is not a democratic institution. You cannot vote to replace it as you can vote to replace the domestic Westminster Government.
You may think the EU provides 'a brake' but all it is doing is circumventing the centuries old tradition of British democracy.

That was why Tony Benn campaigned against EU membership in the 1975 referendum.

Look at Tony Benn's 5 questions you should ask of any body, including the EU that attempts to govern you :

1.What Power Have You Got?

2.Where Did You Get It From?

3.In Whose Interests Do You Exercise It?

4.To Whom Are You Accountable?

5.How Can We Get Rid Of You?

We cannot get rid of those in the EU who made the laws we must adopt.

That's why, when we are given this one precious 9and probably last chance ) to free ourselves from its grip on 23 June by voting LEAVE in the referendum we should grab it with both hands.

The trap will then spring shut.

Anyone who believes Blair/Brown caused the financial crash are woefully ignorant about economics and fail to see the big lie surrounding it.

Also it seems conveniently forgotten that child poverty rates were reduced under Labour.

I'm not a big Blair fan no (I think most politicians are flawed) but I just want to bang my head against a wall when I hear the same ignorance about the economic crash repeated again and again and again.

And the failure to see any of the good Labour did.

Oh DFO Stugtank. I notice all the people who have peddled the line about B/B being blameless in the crash because it was due to a global factor are now trying to blame the current threatened downturn due to global factors on the Tories.

No, we might not be able to prevent international down turns. But we can try not to contribute to them, anticipate and plan for them and ensure that we're as well protected from them as possible. Something the B/B governments failed to do which meant the affects on us were far more devastating, in fact, far from protecting us from it, the actively pursued policies which they knew would make any downturn as devastating as possible. And their policies contributed to the global downturn, if not solely responsible.

The child poverty figures that you refer to a widely accepted as being utterly meaningless and based on totally flawed measures which were easily manipulated and skewed. Do you know how 'lifting children out poverty was achieved'? It was achieved by making the state pension stagnant and suppressing the incomes of the poorest pensioners because it's based on proportion of average income, and young families were simply made to appear better off by making other people poorer to boost young families positions in the averages, not by actually making those families better off.

It also ignored the fact that the cost of living and housing in particular rocketed under Labour making those families much, much poorer in real terms. They might have had £5 a week more in their bank a/c, but considering they'd probably be paying £50/60 more a week just for basic living costs they were actually usually worse off.

Before claiming other people are 'ignorant' perhaps you should try and research a bit deeper than 'The Guardian', left wing blogs and Labour Party press releases?

"And the failure to see any of the good Labour did."

Because it is outweighed by the damage of their failed economic policy, which meant that UK was hit so very hard. Not every country had the problems of failure of regulation, unsustainable government levels of spending and increase to national debt.

Governments can and should be held accountable for how well all circumstances are weathered. Looking at 'what caused a global crash' is an interesting question, but not the key one in looking at a government's economic performance.

Well, when I'm getting told to 'fuck off' for merely expressing an opinion, it's clear this isn't going to be meaningful discourse.

How rude.

stugtank, if you start describing people who disagree with you as being 'woefully ignorant' and then back that up with the sort of sixth form political tropespeople share on Facebook then I think the rudeness started with you darling. Perhaps try and be a little better informed before insulting other people's apparent ignorance and then people won't insult you back?

Um don't 'darling' me. You are clearly rude, passive aggressive and bullying in nature.

I'll apologise for my 'woefully ignorant' comment if it has hurt anyone's feelings. But it wasn't a pointed, nasty response aimed at a specific poster as yours is. Maybe more tactfully put, I will say that the economic crash is complex and cannot merely be blamed on Labour. But it's good lie for opposition parties to spin.

I apologised. Now it's your turn.