Corbyn has deleted all his anti EU speeches

[Justanotherlurker]

There was outrage at the Tories modifying there robots.txt file and deleting all there pre manifesto speeches from the official conservative website, yet as we are repeatedly told by Corbyn most vocal supporters he is apparently a principal end man and is trying to usher in some new kind of politics.

Is this a sign that politics is generally broken wrt 'new politics' or considering the upcoming EU vote, is Corbyn just trying to be opposition for oppositions sake?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12184405/Jeremy-Corbyn-accused-of-rewriting-history-after-deleting-hundreds-of-outspoken-articles-and-speeches-from-his-website.html

'The most surprising thing about this thread is that anyone really cares what Corbyn thinks about the referendum.'

No I think it would be very important if he supported Leave. It would probably swing the referendum because Labour voters would treat it as a very important endorsement of Leave. Labour members have no love for their Balirite wing and they support Corbyn in huge numbers. That is why the pressure on Corbyn to support Remain must have been enormous.

If Bob Crow had been Labour leader rather than weak Corbyn, he would most probably have backed Leave and the Establishment would have lost the referendum and we would have left.

It's more complicated than him changing his mind. Check out theyworkforyou website. It showed he has voted for and against many eu issues. Its not as simple as he always wanted out and now he wants in.

"The most surprising thing about this thread is that anyone really cares what Corbyn thinks about the referendum."

The Leader of the Opposition's views below the attention threshold on the biggest issue most of us can expect to vote on in a lifetime.

He's surely not that incompetent/irrelevant already, is he?

(PS: on Boris, mentioned upthread, he's always been pro-EEC (defunct) and anti-EU (federal Europe?) and that mix will cover pretty much everything he's ever said).

I don't think springing's Corbyn quotes are incompatible with supporting a vote to remain. I would broadly agree with them myself, and I think it's clear to everyone here that I am a firm supporter of remaining in the EU.

EU membership is not incompatible with state ownership, as should be clear from the participation of French and German state-owned businesses in the UK's privatised electricity and public transport sectors. It's also not incompatible with stronger workers' rights. As a French employee I enjoy much better protection and greater rights than British workers :)

Claig I know a fair few Labour Party members, almost all of whom are Corbyn supporters (in fact several had previously left the party but rejoined after his election). None of them will be voting leave, and none would be influenced by Corbyn. I don't think that opinions on the referendum break cleanly along party lines at all; as far as I can tell they are mostly correlated with education, and attitudes to immigration.

meditrina do you really think that this vote should come down to personalities and who supports whom? Because it strikes me that that might be bad news for the leave campaign (I can think of a few people who might be inclined to vote to leave, but none of them would be keen to jump into a bed containing Boris, George Galloway and Corbyn ).

More seriously while one would expect the leader of the opposition to have an opinion on the referendum, I don't think we have to expect him to campaign actively on either side - especially in view of what happened in Scotland. Labour opposed the holding of an EU referendum; this is not their fight.

Corbyn is being urged by the Blairites to step up to the plate and be more forceful and convincing in his support of Remain. Corbyn has most probably been forced to go along with Remain but his heart is not in it and he may even outsmart them and sabotage it by not playing along fully.

It is a crucial issue for the future of the country. The Blairites, Cameron and the modernisers are desperate to remain in the EU, but Corbyn almost couldn't care less. The public will see that and make its decision.

I can't see all of this article by leftwing Nick Cohen because it is behind a paywall, but it seems to make that point.

"Jeremy Corbyn is the ‘out’ campaign’s secret weapon

It’s not that secretly he wants to leave the EU. It’s that he obviously doesn’t care"

www.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/jeremy-corbyn-is-the-out-campaigns-secret-weapon/

Maybe Corbyn is a lot smarter than people give him credit for. Maybe he will outwit the modernisers (left, right and centre), maybe his old school socialism is still alive

"Even the Europhiles are abandoning him! Furious Corbyn tears into Cameron's sham EU deal

DAVID Cameron's desperate bid to keep Britain in the EU has been dealt a hammer blow after Jeremy Corbyn disavowed his sham Brussels deal"

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/648670/Europhile-Labour-Leader-Corbyn-tears-into-Cameron-s-sham-EU-deal

No, mistigri I meant the leader of the opposition, in terms of a role that should have weight in the debate.

If the individual holder does not, then that's a comment on his fitness for the role. Because the individual need not be actively campaigning for one side or the other, but the officer holder should be worth listening to.

I voted for Corbyn and want to leave. Clearly according to some I have a low IQ and education level. No doubt the thinking is unless you have a few degrees you shouldn't have a vote and you are a racist.

I though long ago it was a national autonomy issue. Since the referendum was announced, I believe the term I should use is our national sovereignty.

Julian Fellows describes it as a Phylosophy attitude. I guess for me it can't be about that, what with me being a thicko racist and all.

I suspect that Corbyn's problem is not that he doesn't care, but that unlike most politicians, he has not lost his ability to see shades of grey. It's possible to believe that a "remain" vote is the best choice, while also believing that the EU is a flawed institution.

But regardless of that, if you'd been shafted over the Scottish referendum, would you want to win Cameron's referendum for him?

I honestly can see very little strategic benefit to Labour as a party in supporting either side. I cannot see that there is any political gain for Corbyn in standing with Cameron, but at the same time, can you honestly imagine he would feel comfortable standing alongside unprincipled political chancers like Farage and Boris?

Corbyn sent out an email to members refarding the EU on Saturday and John Mcdonald said on QT they will be doing more on the issue.

McDonnall

vertigo there are clearly educated people who support an exit on sovereignty grounds - Gove is a good example and my father another (he was a long standing ukip supporter from the days when it was a single issue party rather than the "BNP on a pension" - he no longer votes for them because he can't stand Farage, but he remains a committed Eurosceptic).

Obviously on an Internet forum there's always a tendency to simplify issues - and it is certainly true that age, education level and race are quite well correlated with degree of support for ukip. But I'd freely concede that it's unfair to paint all "leave" voters with the same brush. Boris for example is a publicity seeking opportunist but I don't think he's stupid or racist.

And personally I'd be glad to see Labour doing more, though I think they are strategically wrong to do so.

So what if someone has a low IQ a learning disability or level of formal education? It doesn't matter in the polling booth.

'It's possible to believe that a "remain" vote is the best choice, while also believing that the EU is a flawed institution.'

It depends how important you think national sovereignty is. Corbyn believes in socailism and nationalisation and opposition to capitalist free market ideology in some instances and those may not all be allowed under EU corporate rule, just as Syriza found out in Greece where the unelected Troika told the socialist government what they were allowed to do.

'if you'd been shafted over the Scottish referendum, would you want to win Cameron's referendum for him?'

This is much bigger than Cameron, this is about democracy and sovereignty. Cameron will soon be out of office, but the EU decision will last for a very long time and will chain the UK govenment to the undemocratic EU.

'I honestly can see very little strategic benefit to Labour as a party in supporting either side.'

I don't think Corbyn thinks in strategic electoral terms because he is principled. I think they have forced him to go along but his heart is not in it and the people will probably see that.

'can you honestly imagine he would feel comfortable standing alongside unprincipled political chancers like Farage and Boris?'

I don't think that Corbyn sees politics as about personalities, for him and Tony Benn it is about ideas and principles. O some issues, Corbyn agrees with Farage despite their personality differences. But Corbyn is overpowered by the Establishment Labour faction who agree with Cameron about staying in the EU.

So what if someone has a low IQ a learning disability or level of formal education? It doesn't matter in the polling booth.

Of course it doesn't matter. The discussion with Claig was about whether opinions on leaving the EU split along left/right party lines. I simply observed that it didn't seem to be very correlated with party allegiance (this should be a no-brainer given the divergent views in the Tory party!) but was more correlated with other factors. Ukip voters are less educated than the average voter - fact. And it should be completely unsurprising that people who are concerned about immigration are more likely to vote leave (I said nothing about racism - you made that leap all on your own).

'Yvette Cooper: Corbyn must do more for EU campaign

Yvette Cooper this morning called for Jeremy Corbyn to do more to campaign for Britain to stay in the EU"

www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/story/yvette-cooper-corbyn-must-do-more-eu-campaign

They know that the public sees the EU Remain cmaoign as the same old panoply of stooges, slebs with MBEs and luvvies trying to get an OBE. They are despearte to get Corbyn, a principled socialist, to join them and campaign harder.

"Where is he?" the metropolitan elite cry.

"He's at a CND march"

Soon we will probably see Cameron and the Labour front bench, some Sirs, Dames and Baronesses, dragging poor old Corbyn, kicking and screaming, from a Stop the War march to a Whitehall press conference with the usual faces and mugshots.

Well, I'd personally like him to do more :) because I'm in the group that would be most affected by a brexit.

On the other hand, I'm not sure he should be taking lessons from someone who ran for the Labour leadership and was rejected by the membership. I hope any support he gives to the remain campaign is on his own terms.

'Corbyn has deleted all his anti EU speeches'

In fact, Corbyn probably had nothing to do with it. It is more likely that the EU Politburo and Commissariat, in coordination with senior members of the metropolitan elite, pulled the plug on his speeches in case the people started to ask "what the hell is going on?"

Go back to sixth form debating society's corbyn they must miss you

"My mum would tell you to put on a posher suit"

Any 6th former would be ashamed to debate like Oily Dave.

vertigo its a wonder any one votes for labour at all, this thicko daily mail reading crap always spurted out!

its been said a zilion times, its not about party, its a cross party issue!

In fact, Corbyn probably had nothing to do with it. It is more likely that the EU Politburo and Commissariat, in coordination with senior members of the metropolitan elite, pulled the plug on his speeches in case the people started to ask "what the hell is going on?"

I was eluding to this wrt are politics broken.

Misti, I'm not sure how you think I haven't read the full article, and it seems that Unfortunetly for you I am actually on the remain side, my spelling and grammar may be shit but I work for many mutinationals as a specialist big data DBA/programmer, so not really uneducated, I no doubt have differing values on somethings wrt to Europe and free movement but I feel your trying to paint me in a box I don't belong.

I would like Corbyn to speak about his change of opinion on the EU and explain how his views have evolved, it would interesting and perhaps persuasive. My own views are more closely aligned with Tony Benn's prescient statements on the EU. Cameron certainly hasn't persuaded me to be more pro-EU, I wonder if Corbyn could? (Not holding my breath).