Pit bull terriers

[Freckle]

Can anyone explain to me the attraction of owning a pit bull terrier? Why would you choose that breed over any other? Especially when there are children around and the breed has a reputation for unpredictable behaviour - and don't forget that the breed was developed to take on bulls, so it's not going to be a pussycat in any circumstances.

Another child has been killed by one, apparently owned by her grandmother - here . I don't like flagging up bad news on here, but I'm struggling to understand the mentality of people who choose to own such dogs.

Will that be other than the one referred to by this thread DC? Owned by a drug dealer?

The owner of the pit bull in the news this week, Ellie's Uncle has drug convictions.

Where do you live, DC?

I live next to a Brixton Park, and can tell you categorically that you are spouting rubbish.

The dogs of the gang kids are terrifying, and I've seen far too many cases of children being terrorised (never witnessed a full attack, thank God), and other dogs being brutally attacked by pit-bull crosses owned by these kids.

The owners then tend to say things like 'you should stay away from him, he's a fighting dog', and everyone's too terrified to report it for fear of violent reprisal.

what a deeply depressing thread boiling down to reponsible dog ownership.

I'm both a dog and gun owner (and, ruty, I have a shaved head). Does this make me particularly dangerous? Not really.

My guns come out on shoot days only, they never leave the cabinet otherwise. My dog is insured but not neutered (will probably breed from him next year) and is never left unsupervised with children, or indeed with people I'm not confident would be comfortable being left in his presence on their own.

Responsibility is the key and without legislation enforcing responsible ownership accidents where humans are hurt by dogs will continue to occur.

Any dog can be dangerous and control is the key to mitigating risk. The number of people I see letting children take dogs for a walk staggers me. There is no way a child or even someone in their mid-teens could control a determined, fit dog if it decided it had been provoked into an attack. Similarly, the number of people who would leave a dog in the same room/garden as a child unsupervised is similarly mind-blowing.

I would expect to have to have a licence for my dog and be legally responsible for any damage caused by my dog. If my dog attacked my (unborn as yet but in the future) child because I'd left it unsupervised then I'd expect to be prosecuted. There is no reason an owner couldn't be prosecuted for ABH caused by an out of control dog!

Anyhoo.. ...that's my rant. Any kind of legislation/moral responsibilty would be ignored by those who keep dogs for fighting other dogs or attacking people and so becomes irrelevant as does the 'why would you keep this kind of dog?' question.

See your point, but guns do not "escape" and attack people.

Also, as I've said before, the not leaving a dog and child in the same room together is a bit of a grey area too. If you've got dog/s and children as many of us do, how do you enforce their not being left alone together? Do you follow the child and or dog round the house 24/7? Or keep the dog entirely confined to one room or a crate? When dog attacks make the news, people always say "I never leave my dog and child alone together." But come on, how do you manage that - realistically. Surely only by the ways that I've mentioned above. In that case, why have a dog - any breed. Also, I think that it would be quite unwise in some respects, for children to see their parents viewing the dog as a threat to their wellbeing, or even lives. That could instigate fear, leading to an unhealthy relationship between child and dog. My Children who aren't especially young (10 8 and 7) and my two dogs a Labrador and a Golden Retriever, are left alone together, because like everyone else, I'm a busy parent, haven't got a set of eyes in each room, don't want my dogs to be crated or confined to one room all day just because they might attack my children. My children want to be with my dogs and the dogs want to be with my children. They adore each other and have all been educated in how to behave around each other, and what is and is not acceptable. I will go as far as to say that I know my children aren't going to do anything to provoke our dogs and even if they ever did, the dogs would walk away. I know them. I will also go as far as to say that I trust my dogs with my children. I know they're not going to hurt them. If ever I were proven wrong, then I would have to accept the consequences and the responsibility, but I know it's not going to happen. As parents, and owners of dogs, we have to use common sense and be realistic.

HandyTrinkett, you are a breath of fresh air.

Mummypenguin - you say you are realistic and sensible but in the same post saying you know your dogs would do nothing is daft. They are not people, they are animals and act on instince first. You cannot possible predict their every move and to say you can is dangerous.

However, I would also leave my dogs with children your kids ages who know how to treat a dog.

I leave my 10 year old with no problem in the same room as the dogs but I do not ever ever leave my 3 year old.

People will say that's not possible but it is. We had an awful experience with another dog early last year when we believed we could trust the dog and he ended up snapping at our dd. Totally our fault due to our ignorance.

Yes, perhaps if I had younger children, I wouldn't leave them in the same room, but having said that, my Lab is four this year, so my youngest would have been around three and a half when we got her. I haven't ever gone to extreme measures to keep them apart, although obviously when the dc's were younger I supervised them all more. I do feel that I can predict my dog's reactions, I know their moods etc, I know when to tell the dc to give them some space or peace. I don't have any fear that there is going to be an incident, and I don't feel that I'm daft either. There has never been an incident and I do feel confident that there won't ever be. It's a personal thing, we all have to do what we feel is right, and many of us will handle this issue differently, but still in our own ways.

A dog is basically a tamed wild animal, but all breeds are potentially very dangerous and unpredictable. I was brought up with them and didn't really have many thoughts either way until I had my own children. One of my daughters adores my mother's dogs, it makes me very nervous, especially if they snarl or snap. Children and dogs shouldn't be unsupervised.

Jesus sexkittyinwaiting... I wouldn't be in the same room 5 seconds longer if a dog snapped and snarled at my DS. Why do you sit there "feeling nervous"?

PS - Dominic - all the drug dealers I was tlking about are white, in a fairly average area of Manchester - not quite "middle class", but certainly not your typical "inner city ghetto". What an assumption, who mentioned black?!

Freckle - Pit Bulls are owned by inadequate human beings who've acheieved nothing in life, 'cos they think a murderous dog will make them look big and tough.

The pet equivalent of a 4x4.

My Grandpa used to train police dogs - German shepherds - and I was brought up with 2 of them, from a baby. I used to lie in between their paws when I was a toddler and go for a sleep. I think the thing is that dogs need to be trained well and so do children. They need to have a healthy respect for each other. You can't expect an animal not to react if a child pulls it's tail or hurts it and you need to train the animal that a child can be erratic.
There will always be rogue factors, like your dog suddenly going mad ( in the brain), just like people do, and many breeds are more aggressive eg dogs trained to hunt.
Haven't read all the thread but don't pit bulls hold on and not let go - do their jaws not clamp or something? Police trained German shepherds don't let go 'cos of their training obviously but are pit bulls not just like that instincively?

Most dogs hate drunk people too - as they are unpredicatble.

Must add I am not in any way shape or form saying that this poor wee child was at fault - merely discussing why some dogs are the way they are.

The pet equivalent of a 4x4 - I agree - with bull bars, double exhaust and souped up engine.

Given that this breed was outlawed in the 1990s, how come so many of them are suddenly being found and "rounded up" (according to press reports) now? Why wasn't this legislation policed more thoroughly beforehand? There is a very slight possibility that poor little Ellie might still be alive if it had been.

WTF does anyone need to own a pitbull or a rottweiler anyway, other than to scare other people?

They should be banned and their aggressive irresponsible owners should be prosecuted.

blimey.. I'd better tell one of my elderly walking partners that his gentle 8 year old rotty bitch should be destroyed and he is irresponsible and aggressive and should be prosecuted. Thanks for adding that sweeping generalisation fox.

Freckle I agree. Suddenly, all these pit bull terriers in various parts of the country are being rounded up. How comes the police didn't prioritise this before?

I know of a dog warden who told me, upon going to see a particular case, was invited in by the neighbour who had reported it to show him their pups. He said that the pups were beautiful and he asked the owners not to state what breed they were as he would have to intervene. That is what we face in terms of enforcing legislation. I don't think it will change significantly in all honesty, unless we do look at expensive dog licensing. The "round ups" are the usual knee jerk reactions. Your typical pitbull owner is not going to hand in their dog under the recent amnesty, like the real criminals did not hand in their guns during the Nottingham gun amnesty. It's just an exercise in public relations, I am (pretty) sure.

DominiConnor - I also see your point but guns CAN escape and shoot people if the owner doesn't take the responsibility of owning gun(s) seriously. America sees many examples of such escapes where children gain access to unsecured firearms and then cause harm to their person.

The same is true in the UK with burglarly being a particular hazard. One of the responsibilities of having a gun is that you don't leave keys lying around. Having two sets this means that you can't take one with you and leave one at home. You must also ensure that the cabinet is locked and properly secured.

Make a choice to have a gun or dog and make the choice to act responsibly about it!

Responsibility for actions is surely something that parents teach their children?

Rottweilers make good pets if reared by an experienced owner who knows the breed well. It would be silly to include those in a round up with pitbulls. They are certainly not for a novice owner though. I know a breeder had their own kids alongside them with no problems. However he stopped breeding them a few years ago as he got so concerned about the type of people who wanted to buy one from him as they were mainly looking for a status symbol.

OMG 4x4 bollocks again - when you've stopped taking flights on your jollies abroad, I'll stop driving my 4x4 - fecking pick 'n' mix (pick 'n' choose!) environmental hypocrisy. Anyway - that's another rant

Mummypenguin - I'm glad you've outted yourself as a mum who leaves her children in the same room as a dog for short periods. I was keeping rather stum on that matter...but you are absolutely right, completely impractical to do otherwise.....

I tend not to do this for more than a few monents however...

I actually think there's a huge over-reaction about the dog and child in room together thing. There honestly really is no problem with my dogs and children being alone together. Heck, it's not as if I'm out working full time and they're just hanging out at home. I am here! If I thought there was any problem I wouldn't do it. I've asked DH's opinion, and he's fine with the way things are, so he must be just as much of an irresponsible parent as me, eh?

There's a lot of knee jerk reactions and high and mighty opinions flying around at the moment, as is always the case when one of these dog attack stories is all over the news.

Absolutely - couldn't agree more. It's like all parenting decisions - you have to balance the risk. I actually feel their is negligible bordering on nil risk to my children - knowing my children and my dogs as I do.