So...is today the first day of the end the NHS?

[Badders123]

Just heard on the news that the govt will force the new junior dr contacts through on August 1st.
Is this It?
Are we sat here witnessing the end of the NHS?
:(

Beaufort is right in what she says. Once you get to the doctor its OK but the disorganisation and the attitude of the people before that time is awful. Really couldn't care less. Time and time again I have had to pay for private health care, speech therapy (sorry there is no appointment for 18 months -2 years because the therapist is off long term sick), acne - cosmetic so don't bother, hair loss - again don't bother.

I might as well pay as you go. Had to look after my DM when she went into hospital last year. The nurses were truly shocking, most from abroad apart from two lovely girls who had just started their training. The staff nurse spoke to them like they were idiots. If you don't want to do nursing - THEN DONT DO IT!

We also as the customer have to take our fair share of responsibility. Demanding all sorts of treatments, claiming you are depressed because you don't have big enough boobs, or your nose is misshapen and don't get me started on gastric bands. Please, lets all have some personal responsibility for our own health and well being.

It's just too hard to carry on from an nhs employee perspective.
After 25 years of working in the nhs I have moved to the private sector.

The complete inability of people to take some responsibility for their own health and well being.
The expectation that the nhs service will and must put things right for them immediately.
The threat that if it isn't put right for them immediately they will complain/claim for negligence.
The lack of insight of the public into the consequences of their fuckwit decisions and stupidity.
The lack of knowledge about simple minor illness, the inability to manage simple health issues without demanding a drs appointment, unnecessary medications and wasting resources.
Total and unapologetic abuse of staff and resources day in day out driving it into the ground.

I simply can't do it any longer. I'm at the end.
I can't listen to one more grown adult complain that they have had a sore throat all afternoon but have not taken any simple 19p a packet paracetamol because they want antibiotics.
I can't speak to one more parent demanding to see a dr for their child who has a cold, oh but can't get to an appointment because it over a mile away from them and they have no money, no transport, no family, no friends who can get them there or lend them some money, and then argue with me because we don't actually have a dr who can come to their house to see their child who incidentally has had a cold for 3 weeks but have not taken them to their own Dr who is 10 minutes walk from their house because at 9pm at fucking night they are worried about the runny fucking nose.

I can't argue with the 22 year old who's toe nail has fallen off in the bath and think they need an ambulance to take them to a&e.

I also no longer have the sympathy for the asthmatic who lost her inhaler 2 days ago but couldn't be bothered to get a prescription even though she is in the middle of a chest infection on steroids & antibiotics and is so breathless and wheezing she now needs an ambulance and hospital treatment.

No more.
People cannot see what they are contributing to the downfall of the nhs, each person in their own way is making it happen.
Politics aside, people are stupid.

Actually I'm not stupid JimJack and I take massive personal responsibility for mine and my family's well being. I can't go on being spoken to as though I'm stupid by people who work for the NHS because I'm just a member of the public. Sometimes I think they take it out on people like us because they know we act with dignity and won't be rude back or use foul language, etc. I am sick to the back teeth of the attitude.

Dealing with this day in day out over and over and over again leads me to this conclusion.
This has nothing to do with you being "just a member of the public" I am one too after all.
I stand by my statement, people are stupid.

Nice.

"Anyone who thinks a privatised NHS will be 'better' is utterly delusional."

This.

No. Junior doctors haven't agreed with any contract changes, a seven day NHS is better for the public.

Beaufort - I don't think Jimi is referring to us tbh. I have never called an ambulance for example. I wouldn't dream of not trying over counter medication for a cold.

BUT - there are SOME who thinks its their god given right to get 'their moneys worth'. They are often the people who haven't paid in huge amounts - they don't care, its free, its their right to use it.

I have private medical care. I cannot back out of paying so I effectively have both. I am sick of people running the NHS into the ground, some of the staff, the health tourism that people don't want to address.

I think people are stupid too. I also work in the NHS. Reading some of the posts on this thread I really, really wonder why I bother.

Beaufort people like you are the minority. By a very very long way.

Honestly it's draining working day in day out with people with such an enormous sense of unreasonable entitlement - I'm not talking about those that genuinely need care and behave responsibly.

I'm not excusing rudeness, incompetence or neglect, honestly. I'm ashamed to hear some people's experiences of terrible nurses and brusque doctors. But it's so demoralising to go to work every day and never be able to do the job you want to do because of patients' unrealistic expectations, public ignorance about what we can provide or authorise, policy controls, poor staffing levels, minimised budgets, lack of allied health/social care provision, verbal and physical abuse, time constraints and weak management.

I'm coming close to jacking it all in which is a shame as for some of the time I love my job and meet some wonderful people that keep me going. It's just becoming hugely outweighed by the negatives.

The thing is though sidge when I attended the orthpaedic department of a major London teaching hospital last summer a young black man kicked off and shouted at the staff and stormed down a corridor (insofar as he could on crutches and with a leg brace with screws etc). Security were called and handled him really well.

Whilst his behaviour was inappropriate and aggressive the clinic and its organisation were unacceptable and he was in pain. He had been messed about and sent from pillar to post up ling hospital corridors from an orthopaedic dept dealing with people with mobility problems.

The support staff were rude and incompetent, chewing gum with their mouths open. I was told off on arrival because they didn't know where I'd gone after checking in an hour earlier and needed an Xray. An hour earlier I was sitting at my desk and arrived 40 minutes before my apt because I thought I might need an Xray. I was finally seen one hour and forty minutes after the time of my appointment.

If I wasn't well educated and professional I might have kicked off.

Whilst some people are horrid I really do think the system contributes to the horridness and had helped feed a vicious circle.

I agree that's rubbish and unacceptable. I don't deny there's a lot of inefficiency - and no excuse for rude staff.

I think it can be a vicious circle

Ah, so it's the HCP's fault that patients are rude and agressive. That figures. It's never their fault.

At least now I know where I went wrong when I had to wait 2 hrs for an ultrasound. Next time I know to shout. Or maybe I won't, because I have a sense of personal responsibility.

I'm not quite sure of the point you are making there rafa. I think fewer patients would be rude and aggressive if they were met with better organisation and staff who were more polite. Why would any member of staff in a front line (front of house role) every think it was appropriate to stand chewing gum whilst speaking to patients, customers, clients, etc.. If a member of my staff did that I'd set standards and it would cease. And my staff are public sector and not well paid. However, if they are ever rude to my department's clients/customers they are pulled up about it. If a client/customer is rude to a member of my staff and I see it then I take that person to side room and sort out the problem and try to make them understand that shouting about it isn't helpful.

Where are hospital managers when this stuff goes on? That's what I'd like to know. Why does the public ever have to contact PALs for feedback to be passed onto the manager. Why doesn't the manager see that the signage to an orthopaedic department is misleading or non existent? Why doesn't the manager see that admin staff in the department are being rude to people and the waiting area is filty? If you look at any hospital's set of accounts a significant proportion of the establishment bill is spent on managers. What exactly are they all doing? They can't all be filing the equality and diversity forms, entering the data into excel and converting it into a pivot chart.

I do wonder about management Beaufort - I've met some excellent managers and having a background as a senior HCP means they are really switched on. However I've also met some who couldn't manage to find their way to the toilet unaided and are so spineless that incompetent staff just get promoted rather than fired. They spend their whole time writing policy without any understanding of what patients and staff actually need.

It does seem incredibly difficult to get rid of staff in the NHS, they just get a sideways move or promoted

good observation beaufortbelle

My point is that no matter how disorganised, the only person responsible for being rude and aggressive, is the person being aggressive. Obviously a lack of organisation needs dealing with and there are conflict management strategies that can be used to calm people down but it shouldn't get to that point. And it applies to all walks of life, not just patients in the NHS.

Fortunately I seem to have been lucky enough not to encounter any of the rude staff that you seem to have come across. I can only think of two occasions over the past 15 years. And neither of those even comes close the jaw dropping rudeness of the private consultant that I paid for.

I wouldn't assume that your experience is necessarily the same as everyone else's.

Beaufort this is what NHS managers do
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2569801-NHS-managers-what-do-they-do

PALS was probably set up by NHS managers to create another layer of beau racy and to protect themselves from having to deal directly with patient complaints

No.