The UK has a breastfeeding rate at 12 months of 0.5% apparently - worst in the world.

[minifingerz]

Whereas 99.4% of women in Senegal, where there is widespread poverty, double the UK average family size, no maternity leave and minimal medical or midwifery support for postnatal mothers, are still going.

Those statistics are mind-boggling, given that most of the 82% of women who start off breastfeeding in the UK state medical reasons for not being able to continue breastfeeding.

Does beg the question - how is this possible?

here

How old in years is 54 months Pip? (My brain doesn't work beyond 24 months, god knows how I'll cope when DD is two in April!) Sounds like an awesome BFing journey!

I alternate between thinking I don't want to try and breastfeed again/I do want to try, but I don't think I'd continue beyond six months/I do want to try and if it works out I want to do it for as long as possible. I suppose you can't predict anything until it happens!

Ovaries I alternate between the first two as well. I think I'll try it but not expect much that way I can only be pleasantly surprised!

Thank you, yes just quicker to type than four and a half. He started school and we pretty much stopped. It wasn't really that awesome of a journey if I'm honest - I got a lot of mastitis when he was one, and tried to stop a few times but he wasn't having it so we persevered and it got back to normal.

I never intended to do it for that long. But it was fine.

Where are they getting their statistics from?
I don't remember being asked.
I stopped bf ing my 3 year old 2 weeks ago, on his 3rd birthday.

"It's no different to formula really".

Where did you get that idea from?

It really isn't the same.

I think she means in the UK it's no different really, all things being equal. It's certainly not the most important parenting decision you'll make.

It won't make a notable difference to the child's life in the same way it would in Senegal.

I BF, stopping at 9m when I returned to work. I'm struggling to see any reason for our very poor rates to 12m- after all, any excuse such as work hard birth PNd etc applies to the other counties in question. I think what people don't want to say is that a huge number of parents don't care about BF and don't see its importance, which is an educational issue.

A HCp said to me when she started working she was amazed by the number of mothers who would come in for check ups, describe perfectly normal BF (often in tears) and finish with "and that's why I had to give up" people seem to have pretty unrealistic expectations about how much they'll be feeding and how much time it'll take up.

people seem to have pretty unrealistic expectations about how much they'll be feeding and how much time it'll take up.

It might be normal but maybe people don't want to do that? Maybe when we have an option most people don't want to spend all day bfing

Not bashing bfing, I just struggle to understand how some people don't realise that that isn't what some people want

"I think she means in the UK it's no different really, all things being equal. It's certainly not the most important parenting decision you'll make.

It won't make a notable difference to the child's life in the same way it would in Senegal."

If NHS choices is telling us that breastfeeding reduces the risk of SIDS, type 1 and type 2 diabetes in children, and breast cancer in mothers, where on earth do you get the confidence to say (as so many people do) 'it won't make a notable difference to the child's life'? You just don't know.

The latest research from China suggests that breastfeeding for as long as I have, and some of the other women on this thread have also done, appears to reduce the risk of breast cancer by 50%.

The research also suggests that breastfeeding (when it works well, as it should do for most women with the proper support) protects against PND, and that this protection is 'significant'.

But according you breastfeeding can't possibly make a difference to people's lives in developed countries?

I just don't get it. Those things seem important to me, and I can't understand why they don't seem important to other people, particularly given how risk averse we usually are as a society when it comes to our children.

mini

The protection against PND is surely only applicable to women who want to bf. Failure to establish bf can lead to PND but I don't think choosing not to bf does.

As for the others, there are risk factors that matter more. The benefits are pretty marginal. And a 50% risk reduction doesn't mean much unless you post the risk. A reduction of 10% to 5% significant. A reduction from 0.25% to 0.12% not so much.

*"people seem to have pretty unrealistic expectations about how much they'll be feeding and how much time it'll take up.

It might be normal but maybe people don't want to do that? Maybe when we have an option most people don't want to spend all day bfing

Not bashing bfing, I just struggle to understand how some people don't realise that that isn't what some people want"*

Cats im not sure how to say this without sounding like an arse, but looking after babies is hard. The only reason you're saying people don't want to do it is because they have an "easier" alternative.
But babies need looking after, the idea that its just some big old drag to be made as easy as possible seems strange to me. I find it hard to believe, at a population level, that people just want to avoid "hard" stuff when it comes to caring for their baby. I mean, potty training is hard. We don't just skip it.

That said, despite the early pain and cosntant feeding(normal) I found after about 6 weeks when BF was established it was much easier than FF.

Adele well yes but there's an easier alternative. Why make it harder than it has to be?

You could say why take painkillers after surgery, surgery is painful. But we have something to stop that.

So I don't think women should be made to do the "harder" option just because it's natural.

I didn't get past 6 weeks but I have found ff very easy. I make the bottles up in advance (I know technically you aren't meant to before someone comments) and stick them in the fridge, get one whenever he needs feeding. Wash them in the dishwasher, and I use a water steriliser. No trouble at all

As for potty training I'm sure if there was an easy way people would do it lol!!!

That's a shit load more trouble than getting your boob out. You don't think it is because you got used to it.

I'm all for making life easier but why not just be honest? I didn't BF because it was painful and I wanted to do something that would be easier. Then maybe the government can start looking at supporting that perception to improve BF rates

"OP, I have a genuine question and I hope you answer it: Why on Earth are you so deeply invested in this debate?"

I think that's a very reasonable question.

If you read 'The Politics of Breastfeeding' here it will give you some insight into why some of us feel so passionately about this issue.

For me (and for others) this IS a political issue. Formula has become the norm in the UK through a gradual cultural change driven primarily by huge commercial interests, through the damage done to breastfeeding by 30 years of vigorous formula promotion by health professionals in the middle of the last century, and by cultural and professional ignorance about how breastfeeding works. What it's not been driven by is the need for a cheaper, safer and better food for our babies - because we've already got that, and we've been persuaded to discard it on masse.

Sorry, I didn't realise you were talking about benefits to the mother, I was talking about to the baby.

You missed off half my post when you quoted me. I said It won't make a notable difference to the child's life in the same way it would in Senegal.

I did say all things being equal the difference to the child (not baby) will be minor, and that there are more important decisions you'll make that will have a greater impact - eg when the child is weaned and at primary school age, what you feed it and the healthy lifestyle you encourage will have a huge impact on health and things like diabetes and obesity etc. Moreso than whether they were BF/FF.

But if a woman wants to BF because of the benefits to her then that's different and the woman needs to balance that against all the other choices she makes in life that are a trade-off. Eg a gin is not as good for me as a glass of water, but after a hard day water will not help me!

With PND, a few of my friends have been driven to PND while trying, and failing, to BF. What works for one woman will not necessarily work for another.

Adele yeah but usually you have to bf more frequently, you have to be careful what you wear and only the mum can feed. You're limited how long you can go out for (I went out 2 weeks after giving birth if I'd still been regularly bfing I couldn't have done that) and it can be uncomfortable. So while getting s boob out is quicker it's not necessarily easier. I do think bfing gets easier as the child gets bigger from what's been said

I'm honest, I always say it was a combination of issues with pain and also finding it a hassle. I don't think bfing support is great, it wasn't for me and it made me give up after about a week whereas I wanted to do 6-12

That's fair enough. It goes back to my earlier point that most people in the UK just don't think it's that important. That's what needs to change. It might take another 30 years but you've got to start somewhere

Adele I agree with people in the UK don't think it's important, I think that education does need to improve along with support. However I think if even when educated people make a choice not to bf that should be accepted. For me individual choice is more important than public health results, but I know some disagree

"mini

The protection against PND is surely only applicable to women who want to bf. "

Why should it be?

"Failure to establish bf can lead to PND but I don't think choosing not to bf does."

The research suggests that women who CHOOSE not to breastfeed have significantly higher rates of postnatal depression than women who choose to breastfeed and manage to do it. It's also worth taking into account that it's not personal mores which primarily influence women's feeding intentions in the UK, but their age, education, social class, geographical region and ethnicity. A 17 year old from Yorkshire is likely to formula feed, not because it suits her parenting style, but because that's what all her friends do, and she has never met anyone who's breastfed successfully. A 37 year old Ghanaian solicitor from Hampstead is overwhelmingly likely to breastfeed because she feels it's expected, and it feels 'natural' because all her friends and family have done it.

"As for the others, there are risk factors that matter more."

Oh for goodness sake, do you apply this reasoning to other choices you make for your children? Do you say, 'no don't worry about wearing that bike helmet, as you're more at risk of fracturing your skull from falling off a wall than cycling to school?' Is that how you work out how to keep your children as safe as possible? That reducing one risk somehow 'neutralises' the impact of exposing them to a different one?

"The benefits are pretty marginal. And a 50% risk reduction doesn't mean much unless you post the risk. A reduction of 10% to 5% significant. A reduction from 0.25% to 0.12% not so much"

It's a reduction in risk, using something which is free, and which is part of the normal physiology of reproduction that almost everyone can do. Oh, and the lifetime risk of breast cancer is 1 in 8 in the UK, so a reduction of risk of 50% is far from being 'marginal' wouldn't you say?

"However I think if even when educated people make a choice not to bf that should be accepted. For me individual choice is more important than public health results, but I know some disagree"

Given that 99% of mothers in Norway breastfeed at birth, I wonder if midwives there emphasise the importance of 'choice' when they're discussing feeding with pregnant women in the same way UK midwives do?

My understanding is that in Norway there is simply an expectation that everyone will breastfeed, because it's best for babies, and that women appear to comply with this expectation. It seems very simple - breastfeeding is best for babies, therefore everyone is expected to breastfeed. Almost everyone does, and then most people carry on doing it.

Makes thinking about feeding here seem so complicated and fraught.

The NHS makes it very clear that breast is best, so I'm not sure more education is the answer.

I'm starting to think that if the UK were more supportive of women with young children in all sorts of ways, more would breastfeed for longer.

I think there's a real danger that promoting breastfeeding aggressively puts more pressure on women and therefore has the opposite to the desired effect.

Why not focus on the formula companies? Or maternity rights? Or the costs of housing?

mini because I highly doubt that not breastfeeding would be a factor in PND if you didn't want to breastfeed.

I take your point about race/class, I'm a young working class single mum. I've never known anyone breastfeed, it was always assumed I wouldn't bf.

Depends. I wouldn't insist my son did minor things that only protected him slightly if it made him uncomfortable. I wouldn't make him wear knee pads for example.

Well lots of things provide reduction of risks but have their own cost benefit thing. 1 in 8 to 1 in 16 is fairly significant yes, my point was just saying it reduces the risk isn't a point on its own.

I don't see what it is being normal physiology has to do with it