Being proud of colonialism

[AnotherEffingOrangeRevel]

Perhaps it's no wonder that we let our government get away with continuing to screw over other parts of the world for spurious, often covert, reasons.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-people-are-proud-of-colonialism-and-the-british-empire-poll-finds-a6821206.html

If it wasn't for the English there might not be any Irish. An Irish king invited the English to help out against the Vikings who were wiping out the Celts tribe by tribe. There was no Ireland just competing tribes

This is so many kinds of wrong I don't know where to start

Viking activity and incursions was intense in only parts of Ireland. There was no huge Danelaw like in Britain. Some parts of Ireland (esp the west) saw nary a Viking at all.

Vikings in Ireland were mostly trade-based, not raiders. The raiding mostly stopped when it became obvious there was more money in trade and the Viking settled down establishing seaport cities. There was never any chance of Vikings wiping out the Irish. (They were too busy marrying in, especially around Dublin).

Gaels, not Celts.

Ireland was under a single High
King (albeit in a kind of first-among-equals federal sense, since Irish kings didn't do absolute political rule) when the Romans were in Britain, possibly longer. There has been a cultural Ireland longer than there has been a cultural Britain or England.

Tribes? Do you mean clans or kingdoms? They weren't hunter-gatherers ffs.

An Irish King invited the English to help out against the Vikings.. Really? Are you confusing Diarmuid MacMurrough's invitation of the Normans to Ireland (to reclaim his kingdom when it was seized by the high king) with an anti-Viking campaign? There were no raiding Viking then and hadn't been for hundreds of years.

Sheesh...

Saying there is good and bad to colonialisation is just like justifying an abusive relationship

Oh, you stole our land, created conflict and divides, imposed British infrastructure, raped women, castrated resistors, chained people together by their ears to work, stole resources,left indigenous government with an impossible legacy but hey! You left us a railroad

Being the lesser of two evils isn't the same as actually being good though is it?

Only vaguely relevant, but v funny!!

www.bing.com/videos/search?q=trevor+noah+colonialism&view=detail&mid=EB62BDAE59B8C938EBE7EB62BDAE59B8C938EBE7&FORM=VIRE3

Excellent stuff, Geeka.

I would also like to add an item to the list of genocidal crimes against the Irish people that are rather brushed under the carpet in British treatments of the period (both in schools and popular media).

Cromwell.

That is all.

Geeka I love you and your big brain.

Tribes! Jesus.

Oh no, just watched it again. Its totally relevant!

Tomato Deo made my point.

My argument is that we don't know what state these countries would be in if Britain hadn't colonised them so it is impossible and useless to say that British colonisation wasn't all good and Britain did some bad as well, when we have nothing to compare that apparent 'bad' against."

Yes we could if the good things were documented and undeniable and the bad things were speculation and assumption. As it stands, the bad things are well documented and undeniable, on the other hand the good is assumption and speculation grasping at straws at best.

I remember reading this a couple of years back re colonialism; it's pretty bleak.

m.timesofindia.com/world/uk/Britain-burnt-embarrassing-documents-of-colonial-crimes/articleshow/26591747.cms?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=timesofindia

Na o bua Sesotho, Surely?

Calin
Would you be happy to have Britain conquered tomorrow, if they promised to provide prosperity in the long run (with some deaths at first)?
Yeah, what did the Romans do for us?

River and Surely, at least it's not just me!

But it does kind make your hair stand on end to have someone actually say it.
Indeed it does.
Being the lesser of two evils isn't the same as actually being good though is it?
No. But I'd rather be bad-but-better than bad-but-worse. I've come across history taught as this Manichean split - either 'BE wonderful, rest of world terrible', or 'All empires utterly evil with no redeeming features whatsoever' and neither is accurate.

Ke bua Setswana go le gonnye, Lumela. I've forgotten most of it except ga ke'itse. Which will probably do for most situations.

And tomato what business is it of Britain's, what 'state' other countries would be in

They weren't in a 'state' when they were colonised. Britain colonised for their own benefit

Necessity is the master of invention. Britain 'invented' these countries to suit their own ends. The countries/political structures have not evolved in line with the needs of their own people

Its the root of instability in many countries today

Ha ke bue Setswana. Ke bua Sesotho hanyenyane but with a very good accent, so I when I say that, I get hilarity.

Sala hantle, Mme.

BTW, the West Indian planters I mentioned were Scottish.

Scotland received a disproportionate amount of compensation losing enslaved people - I think 15% of the total paid while Scots were 10% of the UK population (but can't find remember which source to link).

Sala sentle, Mma.

'he'd be crucified if he said that in a history dept in a British university, where the BE is seen as the fount of all things evil.'

What absolute nonsense (BA History including papers in post-colonial history).

That's an awesome video Lagoonablu

What absolute nonsense
Well, I was exaggerating a little for effect, but it must depend on the department. Believe me, if I said it in the department I'm familiar with, I think some of them would froth at the mouth and pass out.

I think I'd be happier where you did your BA. I'm not being snarky: I find the lack of balance exhausting.

I have found the British empire to be a sensitive subject, my tutors certainly were concerned about making sure they weren't seen as teaching it in any way that could be perceived as glorifying or excusing the empire and things done in the name of it.

Bad things happened and still do happen all over the world, but history helps us to understand how we have got here. I think more people should know more about our shared history, not so the British or Spanish or Belgians can be made to feel guilty, but so they might learn what not to do in the future.

Who are the people they find to take these polls anyway? How serious a poll was it?