Brighton & Hove City Council considering changing school term times - what do you think?

[JaneMumsnet]

Hello,

We've been asked to comment about a news story about changes to school term times, and would love to hear your views.

You may have read that Brighton and Hove City Council is considering changing school term times to make it more affordable for families to go on holiday.

The city council is exploring the possibility of cutting the summer holidays and creating a "standalone" week's holiday when parents could take advantage of cheaper prices without having to take their children out of school.

What do you think about how this will affect parents?

As always, we'd love to hear what you think, and whether or not you think these changes would work.

Many thanks,

MNHQ

Good points

• shorter summer break reduces the slump in learning over the summer.

Bad points

• if only in one county, problems where e.g. a sibling's secondary school is in a different authority.

• if only in one county/LEA, will the nationwide holiday clubs (like PGL/Supercamps) have the facility to operate play schemes/childcare on an LEA by LEA basis? And many of these use private schools as their venues - what if those stick to traditional terms?

• there will still be the same number of set school weeks, so there is still the same pressure to try to get holiday from work. Every time we get a new member of staff we hope they don't have school age children to consider, as we can only just manage to each fit some sort of break within school half terms and summer as it is.

all that will happen is that the cost of currently "out of season" holidays will go up. prices are cut in months like september to increase occupancy at a time of low demand, not increased in school holidays to maximise profits.

spreading the demand will just lead to higher prices in the traditional "out of season" months

A school in our village has a random week end of June (all insets together). I can see it would help if all children at that school and you could have a cheap week in UK. The seconday schools don't so no use if you have older children too.

I think tacking it on to halfterm would work better than a random week. Give people more chance of getting away at half term - 2weeks, 10 days or say monday to monday flights. I'd prefer 2 weeks May and October.

DD gets 2 weeks in October and we always take our holiday then. It works well for us as there is always tons of childcare choice in summer but not at half terms. We both work for same smallish company so it also frees up slots in summer for others to take. Going to cause havoc when DD goes to secondary with a 1 week october and we put in to take our 2 week holiday in summer.

Lancashire sadly is stuck with usual hols now. Until 10 ish years ago they finished early July for the wakes and went back mid August then 1 week harvest hols in September (Pendle had 2 weeks September - our neighbours with 3 kids always used to go on a cheap deal to spain etc then, I didn't realise why until DD was school age) They stopped it as teachers were employed by Lancashire County Council and it meant teachers moving jobs had two weeks at old school and moved to new school 1/9 so 2 weeks with a class then leaving. Plus August borns started full time reception age 3.

Two week whit is a good idea for junior schools. Doubt it would work for secondaries though, too close to exams.

All 5 insets together is a really bad idea for the professional development of teachers, which is what they're primarily for.
There are a variety of factors to consider when debating the structure of the school year, but I really don't think potentially cheaper holidays (naive hope in the extreme) should be one of them.

As long as not every area adopts the same week, a good idea.

Just to point out that the UK DOES have differing holiday times already. For example Scottish schools break up much earlier in the summer and return mid August and I think most have a two week half term in October. Despite starting so early most Scottish kids seem to make it to Christmas without total disintegration

The issue is holiday times in England, not the UK as a whole.

I think this idea is a helpful one. Bottom line is school holiday childcare is never easy and it's not the council's job to make it so. It's their job to see that our kids are provided with a good education and if changing holiday times supports some families in NOT taking their kids out of school then that's a good thing.

I'm a B&H resident and I think it's a good idea.

I don't think the argument about teaching staff and having kids in other counties is a deal breaker. They are simply having to deal with the same issues that every other working parent deals with.

I say go for it!

So, what happens to all the parents who, for one reason or another, can't take time off work during this magical extra week? Will they be "forced" to pay the higher prices in the original school holidays, or risk fines for going in term time still?

and what about people who can never afford a holiday? they have to suck this up to please a few.

I'm torn TBH, in theory, great, but in practice, I can see families benefitting for long, the travel companies will soon cotton on & the prices will soon go up to match the changes, so none of us really gains.

I'm with the posters who feel in an ideal world, it's the travel companies who should change their ways, not schools

Oh & relaxing the term time holiday rules for none essential school weeks would be better too

Love that the teachers are moaning that they might not end up with the same holidays as their kids. We'll arrange childcare like the rest of us . No one I know can take 6 weeks off and we all manage. Geez

I don't think the argument about teaching staff and having kids in other counties is a deal breaker. They are simply having to deal with the same issues that every other working parent deals with.

Except they are unable to take time off at any time other than their school's holidays. I assume working parents take annual leave to cover childcare at times.

sweetsomethings, you do know teachers still work in the holidays, don't you? One of the children I CM for has a parent who has a teacher and she works in the holidays. She does a some days working at home and some days working at school, goes on relevant training courses, and so on.

*parent who IS a teacher, not has

This idea that it's the evil holiday companies increasing the prices in the holidays is just ridiculous.

The travel providers (such as airlines and eurotunnel) increase their prices, as do the accommodation providers, such as hotels.

Why? Because they have to make money in the few opportunities they can. There are costs to running a hotel, or arranging a flight which are constant, whether it is filled or half empty. They therefore recoup their money when there is opportunity to do so.

We never use a "holiday company", but always book travel and accommodation separately, ourselves. We still pay the half term and summer premiums, though.

It's hard on parents of school age children that this is the case, but hey! no one made you have children. (FWIW, I have 3.)

As SoupDragon says, teachers dont get to book time off. We are limited for example to first 3 weeks of summer hols as dh (teacher) starts back mid august for enrollments etc. I get 27 days a year, I just have no say when they are

(using a national, written criteria for what is/isn't exceptional circumstances as I mentioned in my earlier post)

we don't need more rules; we need less. just back off from me and my family, and let parents decide what's best for their family.

spreading the demand will just lead to higher prices in the traditional "out of season" months

of course it will. But if only brighton does it, that increase will be modest.

I worry that once time is taken off the long summer break it will pave the way to shorter holidays in general. The UK already has one of the shortest Summer breaks in Europe - if we were the best Country academically it might be worth it, but we're not.
I don't think holiday should be set round cheapness of holidays away, they should reflect what's best for the dc. IME kids are exhausted and need the long summer break to properly unwind.
Also it would be extremely hard for schools to all have the same INSET weeks - they would all be seeking to use the same small pool of training leaders. Also training is often planned when it is most needed not necessarily when it is most convenient.

I am B&H resident with 3 kids in school, I don't think this would work for very long if at all. as soon as the airlines/travel agents cottoned on it would make no difference at all.
My eldest two also have learning difficulties and really need a long break in the summer to unwind from the stress and anxiety that being at school brings so although I am open to ideas to address the ridiculous prices we have to pay to go anywhere (which in it self is a very important part of the kids education in my mind) I think a more relaxed view of kids taking time off on a case by case basis would be far more sensible.

No teachers I know work at all during the holidays. The school is completely locked up for the six weeks. In fact one of my friends who is a teacher is going travelling for 6 weeks. Maybe the mum is pulling your leg as all the training is done during inset days

Not completely locked up sweet. They open for A level and GCSE results which DH insists on going in for so we can't ever go away those weeks. And whilst your friend might rock up on the first day of term without any prep, I think she'd be in the minority.

To me the most sensible solution is to allow flexibility of 5/10 days for everyone, students and staff, so they all have equal access to cheaper holidays.

Tbh even just a couple of days tagged onto an existing school holiday would make a difference as leaving early or coming back a couple of days later is enough to bring the price down.

Great idea, in general. The summer holiday is too long.

I can envisage holiday companies upping their prices during the weeks that authorities tend to choose though. There will probably be "favoured" weeks.

Also, if Birmingham Council (for example) gives schools the first week of February off, prices of flights and package holidays out of Midlands airports will increase in the first week of February. I suppose that people could get themselves to other airports easily enough but cynically, I can't help thinking that the holiday operators and airlines will always be a step ahead!