Newsnight item - Cost of translation services

[twelvedaysofchristmas]

Did anyone see the item on Newsnight last night about how much it costs the taxpayer to provide translation services?

I know having your rights explained to you in your own language is a legal right, should you be in trouble with the police. However, they managed to find a Turkish woman, who has lived in the UK for 3 years, who was having "how to stop smoking" explained to her in Turkish at her GPs office. At the cost of the taxpayer!

I makes me angry. I wouldn't expect to move to say, Japan and be provided with medical care or social services leaflets in English. Granted, I know English speakers have it easy in that many poeple's second language is English, but I don't expect anyone to be able to converse with me.

I can't help agreeing with some of the contributors, that by providing, for example, all government services to Bangladeshi women in Bengali; it's actually isolating them and causing them not to learn English at all.

Thoughts?

That's a very good point Whatwould

What, deserves to have money spent on her because she hasn't learnt the language properly ?. Perhaps I'll look for some way of spending tax payers money that on a service that most others don't need, 'cos after all this country has money to burn.

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I teach the girl and ahve a little polish myslef as I come from a polish family, I have laos got my sister to help me make some resources in Polish so we could see what she was capable of without the language barriew.

I thought the same as you about kids learning POlish as she is the first pole I ahve come across that has no english but hvaing checked with someon who regulalry goes back and forth to Poland some kids don't start until later and I get the impression this girl had a limted education in POland due to her behvaiour and learning difficulties.

Personally I think that it's criminal that the different government agencies are cutting English language classes. It is nigh on impossible to get free English classes and it's outrageous that the government are cutting English classes for refugees! Now perhaps it would be better if the money were spent there! Of course some translation services are necessary, but it appears to have become big business and is actually trapping people in isolation. Why learn a language when someone else will speak it for you? Ignorance is not bliss!

Where would you draw the line, though? Would you say, the NHS and the courts must offer translation, but no-one else? Then what about stop smoking services as opposed to urgent medical care? You could argue that helping someone to stop smoking, even with extra tranlsation costs, is worth doing even only at the financial level - would take a very serious health economist to do the calculation about lost taxes v. savings on long-term healthcare taking into account the average length of stay of Polish speakers (to use Newsnight's example).

What happens if you tell councils not to spend on anything other than essential services and a non-English speaking Polish landlord doesn't get the gas appliances in the flats he rents out checked every year, for example. Would the person cutting back on translation costs be responsible for any deaths caused by carbon monoxide poisoning?

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The point being made was that it was MORE important to spend money on English language classes for immigrants than it is to for example, have a diversity page in a council newspaper talking about how well we all get on. We'd all get on a lot better if we could communicate.

The programme was making the point that the money should be diverted to English classes, rather than translating everything. The point being made with the woman getting the stop smoking classes in Turkish was that she'd been here for three years. She may not have been completely fluent, but after three years should have learned enough English to speak to a doctor. The point is that having received lessons and translation services on arrival here, she should have made the effort to learn. However, as the council/ nhs etc make it so easy for her not to bother; she hasn't.

I'm not some horrible fascist BNP voter complaining about immigration for the sake of it. I'm just infuriated that people don't try harder to integrate. I myself am an immigrant, albeit only from Ireland, but I support England in sports, I learned about cricket so I could join in the Ashes fun, I don't go on about how great Ireland is in comparison to here. I've made my life here, integrated completely, picked up English mannerisms and use English turns of phrase that make my Irish friends look at me askance...

OK, that was easier for me to do, as I was already an English speaker, but I think you see my point here. I've chosen to live here, so I have thrown myself wholeheartedly into it and
I certainly don't expect my council to provide my council tax bill in Irish, just because that is where I'm from.

kitty and others, thats a very limited viewpoint. We dont actually live on an island any more. We are part of a European union with umpteen different languages. That is the reality, whether you like it or not.

We now live in a multi-lingual country.

It is crucial, both to speak more than one language, and to accommodate other people at various stages of learning other languages.

twelvedays, have you ever lived in a foreign country with a different language? It is easy to say that she should have learned, but in practise, it is not that easy to do.
I have now been 2 years in Germany. I can speak to a doctor, and understand most of what they say, however, I had already studied German before I went there. Sometimes, the bit you dont understand, can be the crucial bit that changes your idea of what everything else means.

Its easy to say that this woman is lazy for not learning English, a bit harder to integrate into a foreign language community yourself.

Yes we are part of the European Community/ Global Village etc, but surely each country can still have a national language which one is required to speak if one lives there? Wouldn't we all be speaking Esperanto in Europe otherwise?

It really is bloody hard learning a second (third, fourth) language as an adult. And not that much easier as a teen, from what I know. (Rhubarb, your DD was pretty young when you went to France, wasn't she?)

My French is pretty good. I lived in Montreal for seven years. But if I'm dealing with something bureaucratic or complicated, or with new vocabulary, I'm going to struggle. And French is a language I've been exposed to my whole life.

But it sounds awfully silly to me, to try and insist that once you cross a certain line, you must speak a certain language.

In practise, we should all be speaking at least three european languages (not esperanto!), and have a great deal of tolerance for each other while learning. That way, we can maintain our diversity, but get the most out of the union.

I think english people are a bit out of touch on this one. Most Germans already speak more than one language. You cant even escape beggars by saying "im frightfully sorry, I dont speak german" they just switch to english

No, I haven't lived abroad, however I have a husband who has never lived in Spain and who has only done Spanish lessons for a year or so at work, yet he would be perfectly capable of getting me hospital treatment should it be necessary, in a Spanish speaking country.

I have a German aunt who lives in Ireland who hardly speaks German any more. My daughter has a Kenyan friend who comes from an Indian family and who has lived in the UK for two years and speaks perfect English. I'm sure some people find it difficult, but I think it's a reasonable task for most people.

And as it happens, I learned German in school and it's bloody difficult. It takes 30% more words to complete a business meeting in German than it does in English. I think you may have more trouble than most due to your location. And when it comes to "red tape" my German aunt has often said that she hated trying to get anyting done when she lived in Germany. It's difficult for Germans, so it would most certainly be next to impossible for you if you're unfamiliar with the language.

Again, I'm not saying it's wrong to provide translation services, I just think the focus needs to be on learning English.

There are "ghettos" in London where hardly anyone speaks English or even needs to. That is what seems absurd. It's the not even NEEDING to speak English that I disagree with.

Um, twelvedays, none of those experiences are the same as living in another country. Yes, I'm sure German is bloody difficult. So is every other language. English is very very difficult.

I'm sure your husband is doing well with Spanish, but do you really think he'd be able to understand and participate in a medical discussion, when you were ill? Say, your appendix was swollen, and they couldn't tell if it was perforated, and should they operate now, do you want to try to sort it with just ABs, or do you want to repatriate?

And I'd bet money your daughter's Kenyan friend spoke English before she came to the UK.

I think it would be a bit optimistic for most adult learners to understand more than a short appointment, after only a year of language classes. Your dh is obviously unusually talented.

There are ghettos here in germany too, where foreigners dont speak a word of german. I used to work in one. They are english people who refuse to learn the language.

One english guy in germany said to me, that he hated shopping in Aldi, "because its full of russians!"

racist twat. I said "And English People." and let him work it out.

This is all really off my original point, which is that I don't think anyone has the "right" to expect that if they move to a new country, for EVERYTHING to be translated for them. It doesn't matter what country we're talking about, whether the people were English, German or Bengali speakers to begin with.

My OP was just that I believe if I'm on holiday somewhere, I don't believe I have the "right" to expect people to speak English. It's mightily handy for us native English speakers that English is one of the, if not the most widely spoken second language in the world and yes, that can make us lazy.

I think it's fantastic that a foreign UK resident can have their hospital treatment explained to them if it's really necessary. I just think there has to be a limit to what is provided. That is all. It's a ridiculous expense to be able to request every service from every government department in any language you please, having lived here for years and not bothered to learn more than a few words.

I just couldn't believe the tone of this piece or in Jeremy whatshisname's voice as he spat out the word 'forigners'.

I temped at a GP's who only saw asylum seekers and so we used the interpreting service a lot.

The vast majority of people using the service are not long stay immigrants who 'can't be bothered to learn English' but men, women and children who have been raped and tortured and are fleeing for their lives with massive physical and emotional injuries.

It was a totally unbalanced and irresponsible report.

Thought the Sun columnist took the biscuit though.

Yeah, but no one should actually treat the Sun or the Mail as anything but comics. People do 'read' them for information though, which is a worry.

It sparked off a big conversation at work where we are deep in the heart of the East End and where the most commonly spoked language is Bengali.

It causes problems in the schools, not because the children don't learn English, but because the children never speak English at home to their parents, and because there are so many of them that the common tongue in the classrooms is Bengali. It's a real problem to get them to speak English in class, even the ones who were born here. As a result, their literacy is appllaing. They cannot express themselves in English and have difficulty especially with technical language. By contrast the Chinese and Vietnamese students, while numerous, don't have quite the same numbers, so are forced to communicate in English. So despite being more recent immigrants, they routinely have far better literacy levels than the Bangladeshi students.