Two 17yr old schoolboys steal artefacts from Auschwitz

[PyjamasLlamas]

Did anyone read about this? Disgusting behaviour really from these two kids. They were arrested and charged and could have been jailed but have been released with a fine and suspended sentence.

I find their actions despicable. They were actually caught digging looking for artefacts and did indeed find some.

I'm also not impressed with the parent response which uses very guarded words such as 'unfortunate incident' and 'saddened by events'. Not really putting responsibility on the boys. The father of one is the CEO of the private school he attends. The headmaster also said they would have an investigation to make sure 'lessons are learned'. So not even going to suspend/expel them. I work in an inner city school and if one our kids did this they would definitely be excluded if not permanently than for a while.

Everyone seems to want to minimise it with one of the parents saying it was down to age and possible how badly he was affected by the experience of bein f there! What a load of BS. 17yr olds should know better!

Why have they not been expelled?

One of the parents is high up at the school - I think in charge of finance? So perhaps that's why no suspension / punishment from the school.

As for everyone being daft at 17. I probably got drunk underage but stealing from a grave would never have crossed my mind

As far as I can see the parent is only a governor? But still somewhat influential

I've no wish for any statements off the parents or public shaming etc etc in fact i am surprised it made the press. (who/how?) But and its its a big but, whoever it was who tried to turn it into 'it could well be because they were deeply impacted by what they saw' or words to that effect, they are la la (and crap at damage limitation/PR). If they were, they wouldnt have done what they did, they would have been moved, and, respectful. 17 is not a child , yes teens do silly stuff, can be immature, but its not usually sneaky/underhand behaviour that also shows a massive, moral vacumn.

School pupils from any school should behave well on a school trip. Some dont, I expect. These two should have been excluded or suspended imo even if term had ended. Especially if the school in question is interested in keeping its good name, and particularly because schools with a good name need their pupils to set an example of good behaviour.
The governers should not apparently condone appalling behaviour. Partly because the incident could be perceived abroad as an example of how modern well educated British Children regard Auschwitz, ie with utter disregard. Thank goodness the queen set a better example in the same week with her visit to Belsen thats all I can say.
In a way the stripping off incident has similar roots: a sense of entitlement that is instilled into the British from an early age that it is somehow admirable to ignore that which is important to other countries communities and cultures because the British won the lottery of life dontcha know.

I'm really torn on this.

I can't imagine my DC ever doing this, and would be utterly mortified if they did. What these boys have done is unbelievably disrespectful.

But, I've know lots of 17yo do the most ridiculous things...that they would never do a couple of years later.

If my DC did do something like this, I would totally expect them to be excluded from school, especially if I were "high up" in the school.

Did they actually dig up things out of the ground? How on earth would they have had time to stop and know where to dig. And why would they be bothered, seriously it's a bit bizarre. The place is huge.

DD went last year with the Holocaust Society (don't know if that's the actual name) They were not even allowed to take photos, which she said you really wouldn't want to after witnessing the horrors of that place.

Anyway my point is, if the boys had been caught taking selfies or photographs you could say it was reckless behaviour. But digging around for souvenirs is a little more pre meditated. Don't see why it would have to make national news though.

What is the point in 'excluding' children from school. They need discipline and to gain an understanding of what they've done and the revulsion the thinking world has in their antics. To exclude them would achieve what? Time for them to drum up support on facebook or some other nonsense site?

If my children did this I would certainly make them ashamed when realisation dawned. It's not the same as having an adult shouting at them or public condemnation (which is ridiculous btw). They need to understand what they did and how this makes other people feel, what it actually means to have no respect for people who died in Auschwitz and the other camps and why we must never forget.

I think the people revelling in public denouncements are more than a bit odd and only a couple of steps behind Iran and public execution. There's no need for this to be more than a cautionary tale for the parents and children NOT involved and there's no need for a public trouncing at all. Just quiet and respectful shame, it achieves so much more.

Did someone want a public denouncement? By whom? I agree, public denouncements are not the way to go, though it doesn't suggest Iran to me it suggests China.

I would guess that digging is a mistranslation of something said locally. It's quite easy to mistranslate from Polish. I've been to Auschwitz several times and can't quite see how digging makes sense.

That's pretty secondary though. These two were idiots but they are only teens and a lot of boy teens in particular are idiots. It's absolutely clear that they aren't quite bright or mature enough to get what Auschwitz is about, though I'm not sure that can be attributed wholly to being educated at the Perse.

Each time I've visited Auschwitz, including three times with large groups of students, it's evident that people react in very different ways. I've seen a couple take smiling photos of each other against the wall of death and a family with children take smiling photos against the post where a dozen men were publicly hanged. But the only appropriate thing to do is to walk on by. Auschwitz isn't somewhere or something over which one should get shouty or moralize. I entirely agree with what LyingWitch just said - it needs a quiet response and anything else is itself really quite tasteless.

This is terrible. They do know the significance of Auschwitz. It us studied in primary and secondary.
I feel their parents position at the school has limited the punishment.

No, public schools are a subset of independent schools.

It's defined by membership of the HMC iirc.

I think some sort of punishment which makes them look very hard outside of themselves and make reparation in some meaningful way for their utter lack of respect. Community service in a Care Home (I can think of a Jewish one) for instance.

I agree that there's no need for public shaming, but as a parent, I'd be very very careful to not let any whiff of an excuse be put out in public.

Although I think them being at a non-state school isn't necessarily relevant, I am intrigued (and amused) by the public/independent distinction.

Why is it any of you business how the school punishes them? And are you all completely blameless in life? You all sound as though you Would like to burn them at the stake

Most people have made mistakes in their lives, I know I have. But nothing as morally reprehensible as stealing from Auschwitz.

Truffle

No, not burn at the stake. Do community service.

The offence was in Poland where they have already been punished with a night in the cells and suspended probation. For picking up some broken glass and old buttons from the ground which were probably dropped by another tourist- if these were precocious artefacts why were they lying around on the ground

The reason I think they should have been excluded or suspended is so that the other pupils at the school don't get the impression the school condones digging up stuff at Auschwitz.
Exclusion really isn't the same as being burnt at the stake or a public denouncement, and it is sad that such extremist language is being used to describe school exclusion for example.
It is not my personal business - unless one takes the view that injustice is ones personal business. Though my brother in law is Jewish and the effect of the holocaust means that to this day there are few of his family members at weddings or celebrations simply because they (and therefore any descendents) were killed in the holocaust. In the bigger scheme of things actually boys digging up buttons makes very little difference and cant change what happened sadly.
Anyway, the Perse is supposed to be an academically selective school, the pupils would have been taught about the Holocaust before they went, they were 17, an age at which they could vote in Scottish elections, so trying to pass this off as ignorant schoolboys doesn't cut it for me.