Why was Nicholas Salvador not shot instantly?

[FujimotosElixir]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33239870 he murdered an elderlery woman horrifically and was inches away from children brandishing a weapon,an imminent threat, why wasn't he shot quickly? Now he's been contained indefinitely costing 1000s a year no doubt, being a huge danger for every staff member who goes near him and never being safe for release ever. Who does that benefit ?

Whilst it is understandable that an initial reaction to this is a visceral 'kill the evil bastard' it is, as pp have said, not what a civilised society does.

We don't have 'shoot to kill' policies, we don't have the death sentence, we do have facilities such as Broadmoor and we do have a more mature understanding of mental health issues.

So yes, had you asked me the day I heard of his crime I would have preferred he was dead, gone, non existant but, on reflection, Broadmoor and treatment is more appropriate, for him and our society as a whole.

And yes, I do know that sounds incredibly worthy and po-faced!!

What he did was horrific. But he did it while the balance of his mind was disturbed. We don't - thank god - execute people in this country and certainly not people who are mentally ill and therefore not responsible for their actions. He believed that poor, poor woman was a demon. He absolutely believed that because he was extremely ill. It of course wasn't her fault and she paid the ultimate price and it's awful, but it wasn't his fault either. He cannot help being so unwell.

People can and do recover from psychosis.

When my son was born I believed that he had died during birth and been replaced by a demon. I saw his face change into the most horrific leer.

I am not a danger to anyone.

I have worked in a secure unit similar to the one he will be sent to. He needs intensive treatment and there us every chance he could go on to be released and live a normal life.

However, I was shocked at seeing men in the unit who were serial paedophile s and those who had beaten their wives to death living seemingly happy normal loves involving day trips to the seaside, shopping centres, bowling, cotswolds walks, having movie nights, snooker tournaments etc etc. Some of these men were definitely not mentally ill and enjoying being out of prison and in the unit instead.

Those who had committed crimes whilst suffering from psychosis were always the ones who struggled with feelings of guilt and fear. They were the least integrated and least likely to demand personal play stations and trips out. Psychosis is a terrible illness and this guy needs intensive treatment and medication.

I speak from my own experience and do not wish to offend.

We don't have the death penalty.

I don't think ppl with MH issues should be all killed like dogs even remotely. He was on a deadly rampage with no sign of slowing down, I'm simply surprised they didnt shoot him and why they took so long, to taser him, why was the street not evacuated etc. His face is all over the world noone will dare live next door to the poor bloke again , he was known to have serious MH problems at the time that didn't protect the public either,

My worry is Broadmoor will foster its own kind of insanity like many institutions like another poster said poorly Integrated. A lot of people are released into society who really ought not to be,a friend of mine has to park her car on another road when a patient was released to her grandma in her estate as she's so violent ffs! Plus I thought if the police had you surrounded and you refused to put down ur weapon they shot you anyway.

I don't know where you get your information FujimotosElixir, but Broadmoor does not cultivate it's own brand of insanity.

I understand that you find this emotive and the continued existence of this man bothersome. We just don't go around killing mentally ill people in this country - well not deliberately anyway.

Good grief stop talking OP you clearly have no knowledge of mental health, hospitals, broadmoor or policing. Your posts sound ridiculous

She doesn't seem to have read the basic reports of the event, either.

Otherwise she would know that the police did evacuate the area, and that the armed response unit shot him with tasers at the earliest chance. Helicopter was only there so early because it happened to be in the area, so timeline for watching from the sky unusually short.

I hope the officer who climbed over a building in order to get those children moved in time received some sort of commendation. Though I'd like to think most of the force would do exactly the same if they were the one there on the day.

They could not and would not discharge a fire arm whilst others were in the vicinity the risk to others would have been to great.

Your message OP is that dealing with mental illness is hard and costly so might as well shoot them. Nice

Now some on here might say that I am slightly to the Right of Attila the Hun, but hopefully we are never in the Judge Dread business of ‘on-the-spot’ summary executions.

Maybe the FIRST step should be review the Death Penalty, the when and how might logically follow.

Mental illness to my mind, is the greatest challenge the NHS isn’t meeting and that drastically has to change - but I have some justice concerns on the thin line between being driven to do ‘stuff’ seen on videos etc - versus doing that stuff with no prompts/graphics downloaded via the interweb.

Sadly the outcome to victim(s) and their families will be the same, but maybe the level of punishment different, as those being led by what they see, arguably may not be as clinically mentally ill as those who carry out a less premeditated assault or murder e.g. a non reformable psychopath, where incarceration would be at a different, less cushy, establishment.

Now THAT is Attila speaking to ME.

i haven't read any reports mentioning evacuation shrugs , like i said before i thought that happened if you are on a rampage and refusing to slow down /put down weapons you got shot after a few warnings? or have i been watching too many films?

i dont understand your post Isitmebut,

i thought that happened if you are on a rampage and refusing to slow down /put down weapons you got shot after a few warnings

You thought wrong.

is that just America?

He was staying about 10 minutes from where I live - as will many other people suffering with mental illnesses. Sadly not everyone receives treatment or the correct help. I really feel for everyone affected including the kids playing in the garden who were none the wiser until being dragged out a window, but shooting mentally ill people isn't the way to go

God, I can't believe some of the bigotry on this website sometimes

Op, you clearly have very little understanding of mental illness or the treatment of people with mental illness. This man committed an atrocity, that is not in doubt but he did it while psychotic. His view of reality was utterly skewed by his illness. I have and continue to work with people with psychosis. It is sad to see people in such distress because their reality is so disturbed.

A special hospital is absolutely the right place for him to be at this moment in time. He will receive the treatment and support he needs. He may one day be released, but only after very stringent assessment of his mental health and the risks to himself and others.

don't be silly i have MH issues myself, would you be the police shooting that who killed lee rigby? or fred west ? rose west? all mentally ill west is brain damaged.i can imagine a lot of poster baaing oooh thats different. I cant imagine him ever being released the victims family has to be thought of aswell. my main point which has completely ignored was i thought he would have been shot after not slowing down etc.

Because we live in a civilised country where as a general rule the police kill suspects as a matter of last resort, not first.

Unlike some I could name.

Okay i was wrong then sorry for offence caused,my mistake. I still believe institutions foster their own kind of insanity and can cause more problems for patients though.

I wouldn't have advocated shooting Fred West in the street either.

If psychiatric hospitals cause problems it seems harsh to suggest shooting people rather than advocating improving psychiatric care.

i mean at the time resisting arrest, not let loose on an entire MH ward

The other people in you post; those who killed Lee Rigby, Fred West etc , have not as far as I'm aware been diagnosed with a mental illness and there has been no evidence in the press to suggest that they were considered mentally unwell at the time they committed their crimes.

The Lee Rigby killers deliberately targeted a soldier as a revenge attack. Nicholas Salvador targeted animals and the person he came in contact with because he thought they were demons so yes they're very different. I don't know if you've seen the footage OP, but he also smashed the window of the car of his host family whilst they tried to escape him. He was also sacked very recently before his rampage for his behaviour

OP are you suggesting he should've been shot in apprehending him, rather than on punishment? Why? From what I can see he was apprehended without causing additional harm or injury above that he was being arrested for?