Oops, they got it wrong about cholesterol

[claig]

"We've all spent time worrying about our cholesterol levels, but what if it was all... a conspiracy! What if the truth was that eating lots of fat doesn't clog your arteries and kill you, and that there's been a deliberate effort to ignore that evidence in order to secure the financial fortunes of Big Pharma's major anti-cholesterol drugs?"

www.cbsnews.com/news/dawn-of-the-cholesterol-skeptics-big-pharma-conspiracy-theorists-get-a-turn-in-the-spotlight/

"Flawed science triggers U-turn on cholesterol fears"
...
Its Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee plans to no longer warn people to avoid eggs, shellfish and other cholesterol-laden foods.

The U-turn, based on a report by the committee, will undo almost 40 years of public health warnings about eating food laden with cholesterol. US cardiologist Dr Steven Nissen, of the Cleveland Clinic, said: 'It's the right decision. We got the dietary guidelines wrong. They've been wrong for decades.'

Doctors are now shifting away from warnings about cholesterol and saturated fat and focusing concern on sugar as the biggest dietary threat.

The Daily Mail's GP Martin Scurr predicts that advice will change here in the UK too.
...
He added that the food industry had effectively contributed to heart disease by lowering saturated fat levels in food and replacing it with sugar.

Matt Ridley, a Tory peer and science author, yesterday said there should be an inquiry 'into how the medical and scientific profession made such an epic blunder'.

He described the change of advice in the US as a 'mighty U-turn' and said studies linking high cholesterol and saturated fat in food to heart disease were 'tinged with scandal'."

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3096634/Why-butter-eggs-won-t-kill-Flawed-science-triggers-U-turn-cholesterol-fears.html

I wonder if a similar thing will happen in about 40 years to the "save the planet" climate change warnings.

Oops!

The French Paradox

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1768013/

You need to look at other countries with high levels of saturated fat but which don't have the French lifestyle. Is there something in the diet that is protective and affects LDL?

'I am sure you are Googling DM articles right now.'

Am doing so now. i know this stuff instictively. When you understand the game, you realise that if the metropolitan elite say something is bad, more than often it is actually good. That is the game.

But will google for some more scientific evidence than just gut feel about the metropolitan elite's game.

'Intrinsic sugars within fruit and vegetables, not a problem, that's glucose. But what added sugars have is fructose...'

Can we call Dr Malhota an expert if he has less scientific knowledge than my 12 year old niece? Or possibly even her 9 year old sister. I can only assume he misspoke during this SkyNews interview because this is mind-boggling.

Mercola again on soybean oil

www.lewrockwell.com/2013/01/joseph-mercola/soybean-oil-one-of-the-most-harmful-ingredients-in-processed-foods/

It's even more difficult to take you seriously if you keep quoting Mercola.

The processing that soy undergoes (soybean oil included) can lead to the presence of aluminum, a known neurotoxin that can interfere with the function of the kidneys, and monosodium glutamate (MSG), which can also be toxic to neural systems.
...
With soybean oil, the dangers multiply

To make soybean oil, food manufacturers put unfermented soybeans through a series of processing methods. To extract the oil, solvents such as commercial hexane are also used. The oil is then often refined and hydrogenated. The process of hydrogenation leads to the development of harmful trans fats — which have absolutely no place in a healthy diet.

In 2014, the authors of a paper presented at the 96th annual meeting of the Endocrine Society wrote:

“Excessive weight gain is a driver of metabolic syndrome, which includes diabetes, insulin resistance (IR), hypertension and fatty liver disease. One factor that is not well studied but correlates with the obesity epidemic in the U.S. is a 1000% increase in the consumption of soybean oil.”

www.thealternativedaily.com/soybean-oil-vs-coconut-oil/

My gp rang me last week and told me my cholesterol level was 6.5 and under the new guidelines that's over the safe limit (not by much, apparently). I already have ms, an underactive thyroid and a heart problem.

What the hell am I meant to do? Can anyone tell me? (I am so sick of changing my life because of yet another medical problem. My genes are crap!) Please, someone, just tell me.

Jux, what is your diet?

To paraphrase Michael Pollen: Eat (real) food. Not too much. Mostly Plants. His definition of real food is something your grandmother would recognise as food - not over processed industrially made food-like substances.

No single chemical compound or (real) food is bad for you or good for you. Avoid processed foods you will avoid all the hidden salt and sugar they contain, and by eating mostly plants you will get fibre and vitamins needed, and will feel healthy and full so not overeat. Dont eat too much and you wont get problems of obesity.

The UK and USA food industry makes £££££££££ getting us to eat more junk, while the diet industry makes more ££££££ trying to get us to eat slightly less junk. All making huge profits by selling myth that one foodlike substance is better or worse than another, or a particular foodlike substance will help you lose weight.

French supermarkets have huge fresh food sections, where you can buy all manner of fruit, veg, meat, cheese, fish, this is usually the busiest section. In the UK, the ready meal is king, the fizzy drinks, cereals and crisps have more space than fresh food, and the veg aisle is pathetic and deserted in comparison. The french may eat more cholesterol, but from real food not processed rubbish.

Jux, goal posts have been changed. 20odd years ago a total cholesterol of 6.5 would have been considered normal (upper end of normal, but normal). Now it's 5.0.
If you have preexisting cardiac/stroke disease in the opinion of many cardiologists and nephrologists it should be closer to 4.
And of course even that is not as simple as that: it depends on your level of 'good' and 'bad' cholesterol (the aforementioned HDL and LDL) and on a whole host of other risk factors.

People with familial hypercholesteraemia excepted (when cholesterol levels are easily in double figures, the highest I can remember was 17), advice should always be given according to overall cardiovascular risk - there are many risk tools available to drs, we use ASSIGN.

Don't change your life, eat well, have oily fish, lots of food that grew with roots and have a more detailed chat with your GP.

claig

So

1. It may contain aluminium

2. Hexane is used

3. It is sometime hydrogenated

Let's deal with those statements scientifically.

Aluminium - apart from the websites out there that seem biased, there's this article www.researchgate.net/publication/233399396_Comparative_Evaluation_of_Some_Metals_in_Palm_Oil_Groundnut_Oil_and_Soybean_Oil_from_Nigeria

They were worried about contamination. Found metals to be at safe levels.

Aluminium - it's everywhere. Not just soybean

www.enveurope.com/content/pdf/2190-4715-23-37.pdf

It's even in vegetables. Because they absorb it.

2. Hexane - no real data on levels. We unfortunately are exposed to it daily in our lives. Is the hexane in soybean causing harm? Or is it a low level and there's far bigger things?

www.epa.gov/ttnatw01/hlthef/hexane.html

3. Hydrogenation.

Well - that's different. Any oil that's been hydrogenated is not good for you.

One factor that is not well studied but correlates with the obesity epidemic in the U.S. is a 1000% increase in the consumption of soybean oil.

Correlation is not cause.

Aluminium does not cause obesity.
Hexane does not cause obesity
Trans fats - that's not soybean's issue. That's the issue of what's done with it.

French supermarkets have huge fresh food sections, where you can buy all manner of fruit, veg, meat, cheese, fish, this is usually the busiest section. In the UK, the ready meal is king, the fizzy drinks, cereals and crisps have more space than fresh food, and the veg aisle is pathetic and deserted in comparison. The french may eat more cholesterol, but from real food not processed rubbish.

This. Plus red wine.

Sorry about the whinge last night - late, tired, couldn't keep up! I don't want to derail, so thanks for responding to me. I'll start a thread in Gen Health

I don't want to derail

This thread has lots and lots of issues on here. Move to France, drink wine and cook real food

'Aluminium - it's everywhere'

I agree. Try to avoid it.

Have the government "tsars" said anything about alumimium?

"Is aluminium really a silent killer?"

Aluminium, he argues, is now added to or used in almost everything we eat, drink, inject or absorb. At high levels, it is an established neurotoxin – yet no one knows whether the levels we are ingesting are safe.
...
“All foods that need raising agents or additives, such as cakes and biscuits, contain aluminium. Children’s sweets contain aluminium-enhanced food colouring. It is in tea, cocoa and malt drinks, in some wines and fizzy drinks and in most processed foods.

“It is in cosmetics, sunscreens and antiperspirants, as well as being used as a buffering agent in medications like aspirin and antacids. It is even used in vaccines. We know aluminium can be toxic, yet there is no legislation to govern how much of it is present in anything, apart from drinking water.”

“When the amount of aluminium consumed exceeds the body’s capacity to excrete it, the excess is then deposited in various tissues, including nerves, brain, bone, liver, heart, spleen and muscle,” he explains. “We call it the 'silent visitor’ because it creeps into the body and beds down in our bones and brain.”

Prof Exley’s research has covered everything from the potential dangers of aluminium in antiperspirants and sunscreen to the high levels of the metal in vaccines and infant formula. In one study, his team tested 16 of the UK’s leading formula milk brands for children up to the age of one. The results, published in 2010, showed that traces of the metal exceeded the levels legally allowed in water, and in some cases were more than 40 times that found in breast milk.

“Everyone has some aluminium in their bodies, but infants below the age of six months are especially prone to absorbing it and not so good at getting rid of it,” he says.

His research has led him to believe that accumulation of aluminium in the body is a risk factor not only for Alzheimer’s disease but may also be linked to other neurological conditions such as Parkinson’s and multiple sclerosis – and he believes that the Cross inquest will reignite debate about the potential risk of Alzheimer’s in particular.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/9119528/Is-aluminium-really-a-silent-killer.html

By coincedence - looking at the same article...

And the other bit:

Not everyone agrees with Prof Exley’s views. The theory of a link between aluminium in cooking pots and Alzheimer’s has fallen out of favour in some quarters, as evidence for other triggers for the disease has grown. The Alzheimer’s Society says no causal relationship has been proved. “It is more likely to be a harmless secondary association,” says Lynsey Roberts from the society.

Plus...you get a lot from vegetables etc.

I wouldn't put the blame on soybean oil. It is also a whole new thread.

I noticed you picked up on the aluminium but ignored the responses to hexane and hydrogenated oils.

Soybean oil has benefits - but contains some stuff that is also present elsewhere.

It does not cause obesity. If it's used hydrogenated in products with sugar in as well,then it's the whole food that's the issue.

Do you think soybean oil causes obesity?

(tries to get claig to stick to a point)

Whilst we're on obesity....

What do you think of sugar in fruit and milk?

They are simple mono and disaccharides. Natural sugars. What's your opinion on them and health?

'Do you think soybean oil causes obesity? '

I don't know. I am quoting from some American experts.
But I would try and avoid it, not just for obesity, because unlike the "tsars", I don't believe that "obesity is the new smoking" and that "obesity set to be the main cause of cancer". I think there are other causes of cancer that outweigh obesity.

'What do you think of sugar in fruit and milk?'

I think they are OK in moderation because of all the other ingredients that combine well naturally. But I believe in eating whole fruits and not in juicing or drinking fruit smoothies etc. I don't drink concentrated orange juice etc.

"Whole fruits protect against diabetes, but juice is risk factor, say researchers"

www.theguardian.com/science/2013/aug/29/whole-fruit-juice-diabetes-risk

I don't know. I am quoting from some American experts

It doesn't. It contains unsaturated fats. They do not cause obesity. Excess calories do. Because they get converted to triglycerides which are stored for energy use later on when needed.

Go on...milk and fruit sugars. What do you think?

Do you know why whole fruit is better than fruit juices?

Or dried fruit as well?

'Do you know why whole fruit is better than fruit juices?'

No, but if I googled the Daily Mail, I could find out. I just think it instinctively.

But to save me linking to the Daily Mail, can you tell me why?

Yes - it's to do with how it's broken down and the speed with which it's metabolised. Whole fruit tends to be more filling than juices or processed fruit. So the sugar when it's broken down and absorbed is absorbed more slowly over time - so it does not affect the blood glucose level and can be used as energy as needed.

But fruit that has been processed means the glucose level goes up quicker and that sugar is not used but stored. Dried fruit can have sugar added to it.

It's all to do with the rate of metabolism, absorption and the fate of it when it enters the bloodstream. Is it used or stored?