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Original poster

Were the migrants drowned on purpose by the traffickers? [Poss distressing pictures on the thread - MNHQ)

45 replies

grenedeer · 20/04/2015 14:18

Sorry if this upsets anybody, but I wondered if the boat that sank in the Mediterranean on Sunday was a cynical ploy by the traffickers/smugglers? It's in their best interests for lots of people to want to pay vast sums of money to get into Europe, so if the boats are being sent back eventually less people will pay to be smuggled in, as the chance of success will get less and less. By causing the deaths of 100s of innocent people are the smugglers hoping the EU will be horrified at the loss of life and start rescuing the boats again and taking people straight to Europe?

I hope I'm wrong as it seems such a horrendous thing to do but it seems quite a coincidence that another catastrophe has happened so soon after all the publicity and especially with reports of people being locked in their cabins so they didn't stand a chance of surviving.

I totally understand why people would want to seek a safer, more secure life for themselves and their families but I wonder if the governments are able to tackle the criminals that are taking advantage of these people's desperation?

OP posts:
angelos02 · 20/04/2015 14:32

I don't know but I hope something is done about this v.soon. Whilst I appreciate that these people are desperate, how are they planning on surviving when they do arrive in Europe? They won't be eligible to work, they won't be eligible for benefits. Where will they all live?

Akire · 20/04/2015 14:41

I've been thinking about this. Most boats don't sink so seems strange why do many are. Though one over weekend was caused by people crowding over one side so I've heard. I think at first they were told to break the engines etc so they could be then "resecued" and get in that way.
I suppose people are so desperate that they take any chance despite stories. Not sure what the answer is we need somewhere safe to put them while Europe gets its act together rather than camps in Italy which are already over crowded. But equally if we say ok we give EU cards out say 2000 a day you will get even more.
I'm not sure of the circumstances in northern Africa where they are sailing from or if better support there would help. Would hope Cleverer people than me could do something

Trazzletoes · 20/04/2015 14:44

Akire these are not your average sturdy ship. They are relatively small boats, not particularly seaworthy, massively overcrowded and Ill-prepared for a long sea journey.

I work with asylum seekers. I would not be the slightest bit surprised if the smugglers killed them. They have their money. They don't care what happens once they leave African shores.

SunnyBaudelaire · 20/04/2015 14:46

I would not be surprised, this kind of human cargo is a massive cash cow.

angelos02 · 20/04/2015 14:47

I read somewhere that the traffickers deliberately put insufficient fuel in the boats. I don't know whether this is so that the people have to be rescued or to save money or in the hope that the people will perish.

sebsmummy1 · 20/04/2015 14:53

I've just come into this section to start a thread about this and found one already started. I am so shocked at what is happening and I haven't a clue as to what the authorities can do to stop it.

They called off the rescue boats because it was fuelling the smugglers and meaning more people were willing to try and cross to Europe. Now they no longer have that dedicated service people are dying in their thousands.

How can Europe support the hundreds of thousands of migrants that want to flee their war torn countries? My head is just boggled with the numbers and yet the stories are so heart breaking. We also have had a part to play in so many of the conflicts now at play.

angelos02 · 20/04/2015 14:59

It is heartbreaking but Europe could end up a third world continent if it is over-run with people.

SunnyBaudelaire · 20/04/2015 15:12

oh do not be silly it is not going to be a 'third world continent' it is that kind of dramatic emotive language that fuels UKIP and the kippers.

Original poster
grenedeer · 20/04/2015 15:15

I'm relieved others are questioning what happened. There is no fair or easy answer, is there? If I was in the migrants' position I would be tempted to do the same, so don't think it's fair to blame them for doing something that, in the short term, makes our financial situation a little less secure. Perhaps, eventually, things will balance out and everybody will be living in fairly equal conditions? Or is that too much of a fantasy?

OP posts:
Original poster
grenedeer · 20/04/2015 15:19

Sunny, I agree with you, hope nobody thinks otherwise. If anything we (UK, etc.) will probably benefit in the long run because the people that try to make this kind of journey are going to be the braver, more determined ones.

OP posts:
angelos02 · 20/04/2015 15:46

If anything we (UK, etc.) will probably benefit in the long run because the people that try to make this kind of journey are going to be the braver, more determined ones.

Are you serious? I'm guessing none of them are highly skilled people.

Trazzletoes · 20/04/2015 15:57

angelos many of them are very skilled. Not all of them, but plenty.

Europe doesn't take the lion's share of these migrants anyway. Most go to neighbouring countries and refugee camps. The country with the largest number of refugees in the world is... Ethiopia.

Trazzletoes · 20/04/2015 15:58

They called off the rescue boats because it was fuelling the smugglers and meaning more people were willing to try and cross to Europe.

No. It's because they THOUGHT it was fuelling the smugglers and making people more willing to try the crossing.

worldgonecrazy · 20/04/2015 16:04

I think that the West needs to work on valid programmes to prevent the reasons these people are willing to risk their lives in the first place. A huge amount of instability in North Africa and the Middle East has been caused by our interference and fleecing the countries for the maximum resources with minimum costs. I don't think we can blame people simply wanting to make a better life for themselves. If we can help build countries that people want to stay in and where they can have decent living conditions for themselves and their families, then we will solve a huge part of the problem. I don't think it's simply a case of build more camps or stop the boats.

Cretaceous · 20/04/2015 16:20

"Are you serious? I'm guessing none of them are highly skilled people."

I agree with grenedeer. They are brave people with lots of determination and get-up-and go. Also, perhaps they are highly skilled, as they have been able to afford to pay these awful traffickers.

Cretaceous · 20/04/2015 16:20

That is, I agree with grenedeer, and not the comment that I've quoted!

MrsBanana · 20/04/2015 16:30

angelos02
You are quite right. Here's an unskilled migrant. Should he have been left to drown too?

RIP Little person who tried to get to Europe.

Were the migrants drowned on purpose by the traffickers? [Poss distressing pictures on the thread - MNHQ)
Sgtmajormummy · 20/04/2015 16:51

Can I explain the dynamics of how the traffickers ferry people across?

They find an old hulk, the bigger the better, that will last (low fuel or knackered engines) as far as Italian waters. That boat is dumped out at sea. They fill it with desperate people who have spent their life savings on a "ticket" in the hope of escaping poverty or oppression.
The hulk is escorted by high-speed motor boats and the crew escape in these, leaving the passengers to the mercy of the sea until they are picked up by the Italian Coast Guard and taken to "receiving centres" where they are sent back, or the ship sinks.

Poverty and oppression are the root causes. Humans will always be ready to kill for money when life is cheap.

Steadycampaign · 20/04/2015 16:55

Agree with Trazzletoes and Worldgonecrazy

This is a humanitarian crisis. First priority is to stop these terrible deaths.

expatinscotland · 20/04/2015 16:57

It would not surprise me at all if human traffickers did this. That's why it is such a horrible crime.

Branleuse · 20/04/2015 16:58

The whole thing just makes me want to cry for those people and what theyve been through

Trazzletoes · 20/04/2015 17:23

The thing is, that people pay thousands of pounds to make that crossing. It's not done lightly. Perhaps the family has had to sell everything to raise the money. Perhaps they have put another child up as collateral if they don't have the money themselves.

People are desperate. In all honesty, I'm certain that if I was in the shoes of many of these people in Eritrea, Sudan, Gambia, DRC, Central African Republic... I would try it too. Most people in this country have absolutely no idea what it is like to live in a country where the Government just disappears people speak out against it.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 20/04/2015 17:26

I don't imagine the traffickers are deliberately drowning them, but they're certainly indifferent to their fate.

The guardian today said a clapped out boat costs around $10,000.
If you charge 600 people, $1000 each to squeeze on, you've made a nice little packet, whether or not they reach their destination.

Just as long as it gets far enough from Libya so tomorrow's passengers can't see it sinking.

SunnyBaudelaire · 21/04/2015 08:58

"I don't imagine the traffickers are deliberately drowning them"

I think they are just dumping them in the sea, which amounts to the same thing.
Last nights news was horrifying but did show how good the people are Greece are if nothing else.

sebsmummy1 · 21/04/2015 09:14

sgtmajor I had no idea that's what they are doing. So the traffickers are in essence towing the large boat just off the coast and then jumping into the speedboats to escape and leave the shop to basically capsize?