Dog in Vietnam - Upsetting

[Hillingdon]

I was looking online and sadly clicked on a story about a dog in Vietnam.

Little girl had lost her dog and a few days later found her dog at the side of the road having been cooked and was offered for sale!

I really cannot stop thinking about it. i know its only a dog and also some countries and cultures have different views to us but fgs....

"Meat is meat"

Not if its someone else's pet.

Any dog owners around. Keep away from Expat...

Why is a pet different from livestock? Are they lives less valuable because they are something we find it socially acceptable to kill and eat here? Guinea pigs are pets here. In Peru, people eat them for meat. Some with horses in some places.

So don't eat meat.

Hypocritical to say, 'Well, they are not starving. They could be veggie.' When you sit down and eat meat.

im vegetarian but id eat dog if there was nothing else to eat, and i dont see it as any worse than eating pig or cow

People eat crocodile meat and kangaroo meat in Australia, and no one blinks an eye when crocodile meat is being sold in Icelands here.

Rabbit is eaten here, which is sort of like a pet (not too dissimilar to the argument of eating ones pet).

My pet comment was directed at the fact that in Vietnam, people are stealing pets and killing them.

So whilst I might not have an objection to other cultures eating dog, if they want to, I do have an objection to eating someone else's pet, whether that's a dog or a goat.

Do you think of it as a crime against the dogs owners then, more than a crime against the dog itself? just wondering

Not in a million years could I eat dog I beleive but I saw the film Alive a few months ago which is a true story about a plane that crashed and the survivors ate the people that had been killed. I can sort of understand why that happened but to eat a dog because I dont see anything wrong with it NO.
So, for me its a crime against the owner who has had their dog stolen and sold for money.

exPat dogs are not regulated in the same way as other livestock so there is no regulation of their farming and slaughter. It's not just about the type of meat, it's about the animal's experience in terms of transport and slaughter and in the dog meat read, that is horrific. In addition to the fact that eating dog supports illegal theft.
Why wouldn't you have a problem with that?
What if the girl in the picture was a UK child? Can you imagine that experience for your child or your pet?

Yes, because I'm sure Vietnam highly regulates poultry, beef and pork production.

And here in the UK, the Bernard Matthews factory with employees filmed torturing turkeys, or the recent one of a halal abattoir with, again, employees filmed tormenting animals before slaughter.

People keep rabbits as pets here, and eat them, too.

Human eat all form of other animals as meat and have done so for thousands of years, be they farmed, hunted or stolen.

If you object to eating dog, then it goes to follow you object to eating meat, because a dog is just another animal and the only reason it's not eaten here is because it's socially unacceptable.

It is sad that a girl lost her pet. I will get het up about the rights of Vietnamese dogs when the rest of the world gets het up about the following

www.hrw.org/world-report/2014/country-chapters/vietnam
www.usfashionindustry.com/pdf_files/WRC-Report-Vietnam.pdf
www.humantrafficking.org/countries/vietnam

"Thousands of dogs are stolen and traded each year for meat often taken from family homes - where's the indication that this isn't one of those dogs."

Did you just ask people to prove a negative?

It is you who needs to show an indication that this photo isn't just a girl crying next to a dead dog. Where is the indication that the story OP is bawling over actually happened? What is the name of the girl? The name of the person who took the photo? Where in Vietnam was this photo taken? Why can't we see any indication of this "meat market" where the photo was supposedly taken?

"It's a real issue."

The real issue is POVERTY. You are criticising people for stealing an animal that can be eaten or sold for money in a country where GDP per capita is $1,900. That may look outrageous to you, in the comfort of your home in a country with a GDP per capita of $41,800. May your convictions never be tried with poverty and hunger

expat is right. A dog is an animal just like a lamb or a pig. Actually, pigs are smarter than dogs. The whole canine species isn't a special non-edible kind of animal just because a dog licked your hand once and fetched you a stick.

"Thousands of dogs are stolen and traded each year for meat often taken from family homes - where's the indication that this isn't one of those dogs."

It is you who needs to show an indication that this photo isn't just a girl crying next to a dead dog. Where is the indication that the story OP is bawling over actually happened? What is the name of the girl? The name of the person who took the photo? Where in Vietnam was this photo taken? Why can't we see any indication of this "meat market" where the photo was supposedly taken?

"It's a real issue."

The real issue is POVERTY. You are criticising people for stealing an animal that can be eaten or sold for money in a country where GDP per capita is $1,900. That may look outrageous to you, in the comfort of your home in a country with a GDP per capita of $41,800. May your convictions never be tried with poverty and hunger

expat is right. A dog is an animal just like a lamb or a pig. Actually, pigs are smarter than dogs. The whole canine species isn't a special non-edible kind of animal just because a dog licked your hand once and fetched you a stick.

I couldn't eat someone's pet.

I could eat a dog specifically raised to be eaten if I were in a country were it was acceptable and they were regulated for consumption.

A dog is meat after all and I don't have issue with eating any other animal so why a dog?

or what Cote just said (twice)

Anyone that thinks dog thrives are poor is having a laugh. Dog meat sells more (VND per kg) than any other meat. It's stolen so no rearing. costs and sold at a premium, usually to rich business men.

Cote why are you so determined the dog meat trade is a lie? I've seen trucks with thousands of stolen dogs in them stopped at borders, I've lived in Vietnam and had dogs stolen for the trade, I've seen families and friends of mine exactly like this little girl reacting exactly like this when they find their pet gone. The problem is not poverty. The problem is that people who love their pets are gutted when those pets are stolen - how does poverty drive this? Dog meat thieves are certainly not poor.

Why do you think the little girls is crying over a random dead dog? What's your explanation for the photo? Mine is that Vietnamese friends have verified it as accurate. Not sure that a link to vietnamese social media would help you though. Why are you so determined to believe that a Vietnanese girl wouldn't weep over losing her pet?

Also if you think at this is not one if the thousands of dogs stolen and traded for meat, because the photo shows no evidence of that, what do you think happened to it? Just really bad sunburn? come on at least produce a realistic alternate scenario rather than just denying the likeliest.

Not seen the pic and it's always sad when a child loses a pet but she will get over it.

I've not been to Vietnam or eaten dog but I would like to try it.

I'd understand if people upset were vegetarian but if your not then its double standards.

And Expat Vietnam is an OIE member. That means it regulates the transport and slaughter of livestock and those animals are subject to vaccination and quarantine legislation to protect human health. Of course it's not the same standard as the UK, but it does happen to an extent.

Dogs are trafficked often thousands of miles from as far away as Cambodia and Thailand with no access to water etc. it is illegal for them to cross the border without vaccination so they're smuggled. They're slaughtered in shops with no access to stunning it slaughter regulation. Slaughter of dogs for meat has been associated with rabies and cholera transmission to humans.

I'm really surprised that people in the UK are so keen to dismiss a child's compassion and defend the rights of (often international) criminal gangs to steal family pets and sell smuggled unregulated meat at a premium price. Why does anyone think that's ok? Even the people of Vietnam don't agree with it - dog thrives are prosecuted and jailed, so those suggesting it is acceptable value seem to be at odds with Vietnam's own legal system.

Yeah it's really life- enhancing Zippey
Any other illegal practices that cause mass suffering on your to-do list?

If you get upset about dogs being eaten but not other animals then your concern is for the hurt feelings of the humans who are emotionally attached to the animals and not for the animals themselves.

If you eat meat then you are benefiting from the suffering and misery of all the animals whose flesh you have consumed.
Not out of necessity but just for pleasure.
Utterly hypocritical and self serving to complain about dogs being eaten? but not other creatures

So you think that if children eat meat they don't have a right to an emotional response when their pet is stolen and killed then Suzanne? Or that Vietnamese pet owners are hypocritical to object to their pets being used for meat?

Why do you need to be a vegetarian to object to the theft of pets, illegal trade, disease risks to humans and transport and slaughter conditions which have no humane regulation? Or to empathise with a child in distress?
For what its worth, I am, but I think as a meat-eater you can still have those concerns without being a hypocrite.

I think its a bit sad that the UK middle classes are to paraphrase Cote sitting in their armchairs defending an illegal trade which causes mass human and animal suffering on the basis that farm animals also suffer.
Well thats ok then isn't it, those poor dog owners in Vietnam should just suck it up....

Why is the suffering of a pet worse than the suffering of any other animal?

Sunshine - Your posts present such a target-rich environment that I don't know where to start.

I would like to familiarise you with a logical fallacy called Straw Man - it is what you do when you misrepresent what people have said and answer stuff that nobody claimed, such as Cote why are you so determined the dog meat trade is a lie? or Why are you so determined to believe that a Vietnanese girl wouldn't weep over losing her pet? which of course I have not said or implied in any way.

"if you think at this is not one if the thousands of dogs stolen and traded for meat, because the photo shows no evidence of that, what do you think happened to it?"

It looks like a dead dog - that is all I know. That is all you know as well, despite your pretensions of prescience. FWIW, the dog doesn't look cooked which you would know if you had ever seen an animal cooked whole. There is no indication whatsoever that this photo was taken in a market of any kind, least of all a meat market. You are filling in all those blanks with your fiery agenda, or worse, your gullibility.

"Dog meat sells more (VND per kg) than any other meat. It's stolen so no rearing. costs and sold at a premium"

... which makes it understandable that people in Vietnam are stealing & selling dogs. Do I need to tell you again that GDP per capita is $1,900 in Vietnam? That is about £1,200 per year. If people kept ducks or sheep for pets, I bet those would be stolen and eaten, too.

"The problem is not poverty. The problem is that people who love their pets are gutted when those pets are stolen'

You are confusing the overall problem and its side effect. The problem is poverty. That is why thieves are stealing dogs to sell. The side effect of this theft are sad kids, which, in the grand scheme of things, I really can't get that outraged over tbh.

In places with low income, hungry kids (of the thief) trump sad kids (who lose a pet). I am really surprised that an adult needs to be told this.

Cote if you'd bothered do to read any of my posts properly, you'd be able to figure out that I'm pretty familiar with the dog meat trade. Cooked dogs do indeed look exactly like the photo. What are you basing your opinion on? Because it isn't fact or direct experience. Even if this photo was faked as you suggest (why? ) then that doesn't mean to say that it doesn't represent a true situation. I've experienced this situation myself, and had many Vietnanese friends experience the same. I'm not sure why you're so committed to denying their pain when their pets are stolen and tortured to death.

It cannot be because of your sympathy for the 'poor their' as I'm sure you'll also be aware that cost of living is significantly lower in Vietnam than the UK so pointing out the GDP in absence if this is pretty meaningless. Vietnam is also one of the fastest growing economies in the Asia region and jobs are plentiful so I'm confused as to why you think the cost of dog meat justifies international criminality and trafficking? This isn't a subsistence trade. It's an illegal criminal enterprise, much like any other illegal trafficking - do you defend drug or arms criminals also? This isn't somebody nicking a dog to feed their family, it's thousands of animals stolen from Thailand, Cambodia and the rural North and South of Vietnam to sell to up-market restaurants in large towns and cities. It's interesting that you are so determined to defend an industry that you clearly know nothing about.