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Original poster

Woman released 1 yr after killing her newborn due to PND

52 replies

beegee · 24/10/2006 11:10

Really tragic story. The woman burnt her flat down with the LO inside. She had been suffering from severe PND and hadn't received any support or been properly diagnosed.

Did anyone see the section on GMTV this morning on the subject?

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Original poster
beegee · 24/10/2006 19:22

Yes - HRH - it's virtually impossible to diagnose yourself when you're 1st time mum. How do you know anything when EVERYTHING'S so new? I only got it with my 2nd and, although I felt not myself and the complete opposite than I'd felt with ds1, I STILL didn't admit it to myself. Wierd, I know.

Big hugs to all who have suffered / are suffering from PND.

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alexsCURSEDMUMMY · 24/10/2006 19:28

every time my hv saw me i was in tears and i actually went to her and said my parents and friends all think i have pnd, and she told me that i didn't , and that anyone would be low with all the stuff going on in my life that was going on. stupid woman.
it's only with hindsight that i realise that of course it was pnd and i felt terrible, like i wasn't good enough to have my baby, that i was a rotten mother.

Original poster
beegee · 24/10/2006 19:30

I'd like to think this would make health professionals more aware, Lulu. However the way this case has been reported the focus seemed to be rather judgmental of the poor woman.

The policeman in charge of investigating the case was pretty vilifying of her in the Telegraph today.

GMTV were definately more sympathetic for her side of the story and did a piece about PND to accompany the news item.

It breaks my heart what that poor woman is going through/will still have to go through.

(I'm so glad you're better now and I so know what you mean it makes you a stronger person. I feel I'm getting closer to that perspective now.

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Original poster
beegee · 24/10/2006 19:34

Hi alexsCM - again, unbelievable.

I can forgive an average joe bloggs their lack of understanding of this condition, but a HV!!

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lulumama · 24/10/2006 19:34

glad you are on the positive part of your journey Begee...!

i think women are always going to be vilified for not being 'perfect', for not being able to cope...it;s a shame there is not some more reasonable reporting of this

she is an extreme case...but she has to live with what she has done for ever..i bet she doesn't sleep at night...

Pitchounette · 24/10/2006 19:51

Message withdrawn

Original poster
beegee · 24/10/2006 20:12

Yes, pitch. It can ring the wrong type of alarm bells in women...I see your point.

Women are good at hiding PND in general because of the stigma attached to it I reckon. Anything that adds to that is irresponsible and dangerous.

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VeniVidiVickiQV · 24/10/2006 20:17

Yes, I agree that the CPS and the Judge made some good decisions on this case.

Surely anyone can see that no-one in their "right mind" would kill their own child?

VeniVidiVickiQV · 24/10/2006 20:20

I wonder if doing the Edinburgh test as a matter of course 6-12 weeks after childbirth worthwhile?

Original poster
beegee · 24/10/2006 20:28

VVVQV - You would think so.

Is the Edinburgh test supposed to be done with every new mother as a matter of course? Does it depend on the area in which you live? Is it only done on women who are displaying symptoms?

I wasn't given it with ds and only asked to complete it with dd when I started having symptoms.

Anyone else?

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FioFio · 24/10/2006 20:29

This reply has been deleted

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lulumama · 24/10/2006 20:32

done with both my kids,,,,but see post of 7.07!!

THIS time new HV did it at 10 days and asked me to come to baby clinic every other week or she would come to me to make sure i was ok...

VeniVidiVickiQV · 24/10/2006 20:37

Thats unfortunately very true Fio

Its not done as a matter of course beegee, but perhaps it should be?

It's only done if the mother has already displayed symptoms that has been brought to the attention of the GP or HV.

MadamePlatypus · 25/10/2006 09:58

I think the Edinburgh test was done as a matter of course by the HV's at my practice. However, I am not sure how much they would chase you about it if you didn't come in to do it. Its difficult with the HV issue. I went to see HV religiously with DS when he was very little, but I am not sure whether I would go so often with a second baby. As DS was following his weight lines pretty much perfectly the only time I have seen the HV since he was 4 months old was for his 8 month check.

expatinscotland · 25/10/2006 10:08

Sorry, but that Edinburgh Test is a LOAD. Anyone w/a brain cell can fool that thing if they don't want to be stigmatised as a depressive.

Who thought that up?

I know tramps who could have done a better job for a fiver b/c they've got a little thing called common sense.

Observing someone is more accurate. But of course, that costs money and resources and we wouldn't want to squander htose on things like mothers and babies.

HumphreyComfrey · 25/10/2006 10:11

I agree with Expat.

My HV did the Edinburgh test with me after having DS1. I didn't have PND, but did give answers I thought she wanted to hear, rather than what I really felt, as I wanted to prove I was coping.

What I mean is that it is easy to 'cheat', and I really didn't like being 'tested' at all.

A general chat would have been more helpful.

I did have PND after DS2, and my HV took the latter approach, which made it easier for me to confide my feelings to her.

expatinscotland · 25/10/2006 10:13

I was past uncontrollable tears.

That's when it gets scary.

When you're found by the police at 2AM, stone sober, looking at the drop off a bridge, wondering how many seconds it'll take before you finally, finally get some relief and sleep and just know no more.

lulumama · 25/10/2006 10:14

expat......you've sent chills down my spine...and made me cry

i remember looking into the abyss....

expatinscotland · 25/10/2006 10:20

Everyone complimented me on how quickly I lost the baby weight.

LOL!

'Oh, you're sooo thin! Lucky you!'

Yes. I live on Coke and cigarettes. I'm thin b/c I am insane and the worst part is that I'm completely aware of that fact and can't seem to make myself feel like me again.

MadamePlatypus · 25/10/2006 10:20

I remember doing the Edinburgh test. I answered yes to pretty much all the questions, and then the HV said "Your answers seem quite extreme - did you read the bit where it said that you are supposed to have experienced all these things in the past day?" I hadn't read that bit so she said "you seem OK to me" ( or words to that effect) and that was the end of the Edinburgh test. I agree that its not a brilliant way of recognising PND.

Pitchounette · 25/10/2006 11:04

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Overrun · 25/10/2006 11:17

I agree with expats, that the Edinborough test is pretty fallible, just like any of those tests. When I have worked with women with PND, I think that talking to them at lenght, proved to be a much more sucessful form of risk assessment. I wouldn't dismiss a test result though, it has it's place..

Original poster
beegee · 25/10/2006 13:42

The test worked in a way for me - my hv did it when I was feeling appauling..my dp was sitting with us. When it came to the question on would you consider harming yourself - I answered 'sometimes'...It felt easier writing it down as I was shaking so much when I spoke and I felt I could be more honest IYSWIM. That opened up a discussion as my dp had NO idea I had got so low. I was hiding a lot of it.

Many tears later...etc it all came out. By being asked the questions it made me speak about the real dark side of how I was feeling.

I do know what some mean about hiding in the test but it kind of made me realise how ill I was.

It also helped doing the test in the following months to assess my recovery. ie comparing my scores to previous tests.

I don't know about anyone else, but I found it difficult to actually assess how I was doing as I'd got so low and consequentially during my recovery I didn't really see the progress I was making. The tests helped me to see that.

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Original poster
beegee · 25/10/2006 13:50

expat - - yes, been to the abyss too...big hugs x

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divastrop · 25/10/2006 20:02

if this woman was suffering from p.psychosis then shouldnt they have specified that in the media?the ignorant in society who already judge people who are mentally ill read these sorts of things and think that all women who are suffering PND must want to harm their babies.theres still such a stigma attached to it.i know so many women who were afraid to admit they were suffering because they were scared their babies would be taken away.
i remember with ds1 at the 6 week check telling my gp i was crying all the time but i thought that was normal.
i have also had gps/hv's telling me ,when i was clearly suffering from AND/PND ,that what i was feeling was to be expected under the circumstances,ie.difficult relationships,lack of family support etc.it really drove me mad as i knew what i was feeling wasnt normal.

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