Childcare costs break £6k barrier - a rise of 33% over the course of this parliament

[KateMumsnet]

Hello all

A report by the Family and Childcare Trust has found that the annual cost of a childcare place has, for the first time, broken the £6,000 barrier, averaging £115.45 per week across Britain. This means that childcare costs have risen by an inflation-busting 33% over the course of this parliament, and that, for families on the lowest incomes, it no longer pays to work.

We'd love to know what you think. Are your childcare costs comparable? Have you found that childcare costs outweigh the benefits of working? Do share your thoughts and experiences below.

Surprised at Kitchinsinkmum's comments. Those of us who work FT pay large amounts of tax to contribute to society as a whole. I receive no tax credits or child benefit (rightly as higher earner). I contribute to the whole of society. Our nanny is not "a stranger" as you say. The children adore her, as do we. She is part of the family. She is far more patient than I am, an expert in her field, and as her sole responsibility is the children they get amazing care and attention from her. Why should I give up my job for a 'graduate'? No graduate could do my job. If I gave up work to be a SAHM my role in all likelihood would be filled by an equally experienced man, not by someone fresh out of uni. In my experience there are few careers which allow a large break to enable you to look after young children and then return to your former role. In my industry if you take more than a year off you will be unlikely to be able to return to a similarly well paying role. For a lot of working parents the choice is either childcare being out sourced or one parent completely sacrificing their career and earning potential while the parent who remains in the workforce takes on the pressure of earning for the entire family and providing pensions for both adults. What happens if the working parent dies? What happens to the SAHP when the children leave the nest? Childcare should be affordable for the majority. Then those who wish to work can and those who wish to provide childcare themselves can, but most people have a choice. For many, there is no choice as childcare is so expensive.

I Have just given up work as the childcare costs cancelled out any financial benefits once the commuting costs were factored in. We have 2 dc so we're paying £1400 at one point and eventually it reduced to £800.

I also have a child with SEN so had to take time off for hospital appointments . We did share it between us but because I worked p/t my absences were noticeable. It didn't work out in terms of finances or career advancement. My colleagues got the interesting projects and eventual promotions.

MsAspreyDiamonds I am sorry to hear you had to give up your job. More should be done by the government to enable people in your circumstances to stay in work. Kitchensink is probably breathing a sigh of relief at a graduate being able to take your job. Of course if they're a woman that'll only be for a short time until they have children and have to stay at home.

Thanks VioletteSelfridge I was tired by the end of it all so was glad to leave. Ironically I am a graduate but not a recent one & they have filled my position with a childless young woman on a f/t basis.

It is a catch 22 situation, in order to be promoted you need exposure to diverse projects to expand your skills based. If you are p/t & time restricted then you miss out on the promotions. The employers then highlight your lack of experience to justify their decision to promote someone else. You can't win.

Duffus, I'm almost embarrassed for you. I can hardly believe that, after all our efforts to correct the misinformation surrounding childminder ratios and charges, there is still someone who either believes all that, or whose interests are served in peddling it.

So, at the risk of boring all those who do know it, I'll bite and, yet again, correct the misinformation.

Your argument bases itself on the erroneous belief that all childminders are caring for 6 children for every hour of every working day, Of course, that's not the case at all.

3 of those children will be school age. They are not charged while they are at school. Of the remaining 3, there's no guarantee they'll arrive at the same time and leave at the same time. Many childminders have to be open 10-12 hours a day in order to cover this.
Nurseries, of course, have greater ratios: up to 8 in some cases: one with an Early Years Professional can take 13:1. A childminder with EYP status is still generally restricted to 3:1 under 5s.

Then again, you assume the childminder is full at all times. Again, not the case. It's a notoriously famine and feast business and we can go months running under numbers.

Charging for holidays? Not all childminders do this. Some people find it a fairer way to operate because we're in the unique situation of working simultaneously for more than one client. It's difficult to plan holidays to suit everyone otherwise.

All the above is further complicated by the parents who mess us about by paying late, or not paying at all, changing hours at short notice, trying to avoid our notice periods. A few years ago, one of my clients disappeared abroad, owing me a substantial amount.
Remember that, every time you complain about fee increases. You are paying in part for all the dishonest people who steal childcare services from us.

Lastly, you make the usual confusion between our pay and our business expenses. What you pay is not ours to keep. We have running costs, food, insurance, facilities, training, travel expenses, equipment and resources, training, subscriptions etc. etc. to pay for. We can't fundraise like the nurseries can: we have to meet these expenses ourselves.

Apart from anything, we're professionally trained childcarers! Many of us have degrees, diplomas and other professional qualifications. Do you think we should work for free?

It's this lack of respect, these long hours and low take home pay, that is seeing childminders giving up in their thousands.

If you want to know who's really raking it in, I can tell you that, too. It's the entrepreneurs who are buying up independent nurseries and children's centres, then selling them to the big nursery chains for a fat profit; it's the nursery chains who are forcing independent nurseries and childminders out of business.

Can't afford the big nursery chain when it hikes its fees, confident in the knowledge that it has annihilated the rival businesses? Not a problem: you can use the schools for childcare. It's much easier for the Government to administer and control.

Big chains of daycare centers here. Bright horizons Is good but $$$$. I love that I am able to use the government option even though DH is a higher rate earner. As it is I will be leaving work in April as my son needs more care and any time missed on a part time schedule is closely watched in a way it isn't when you are FT. I make $20k after taxes and costs working FT and barely breakeven when PT. I don't need the stress of figuring out my schedule a month in advance to accommodate doctor, speech therapist and other necessary appointments.

We are currently expecting our first and I have been investigating costs in our area (South East) and the local nurseries are ranging from £50-£65 per day, we would need to put our child in 5 days a week so looking at on average £12-15K a year....Some include milk and nappies etc others don't, they all don't open until 8am and we both need to be at work by 8.20am. We will have to be doing even more saving in the coming couple of months before I go on maternity leave and continue to investigate our options...

Def look at child minders scooby. If we were in the UK I would be trying a childminder first and then a nanny. Very few of the nurseries have suitable hours.

Here in my area of the U.S. most daycare centers are open 7-7. I think that gives parents a chance to schedule their hours accordingly.

Personally the ideal solution would be to work part-time, but it's not easy to find part-time work in the private sector. Finding it difficult to juggle everything, I gave up my full-time job a year or so ago, and spent 3 months looking for a part-time role, without success (while continuing to pay full time nursery fees for my eldest). The first full time job I applied for, I was offered. If more part-time roles were available for men and women, it would reduce these kind of all-or-nothing decisions that (mostly women) have to make. It would involve a massive culture change across the professions though.

Current fees at the nursery my DD attended £12,100pa for an under 2 yo; £11,000 for 2-5. Not SE.

I've just sorted out the holiday childcare. £200 for this half term. Another £142 for Easter (just one week; the other will be Leave). Another £335 for the summer (just 2 weeks; DH off 3 weeks; grandma one week).

I really would like to know where they get their figures from. Can only assume they are averaging out part time care, and don't most people have more than one child?

I've often thought that more part-time jobs would solve a range of society's woes. The NEF have a couple of things on this. We definitely need more available in the professions and especially available to men.

www.neweconomics.org/blog/entry/its-time-to-change-the-way-we-work-and-care
www.neweconomics.org/publications/entry/21-hours

ooh, right on time www.bbc.com/news/business-30655926

Currently I'm a stay at home mum, until of course my son turns 5 (in August) and then I will be pushed to be out working.
The fact is there aren't enough jobs that are during school hours, and what about school holidays?! His dad doesn't see him and there are no family members who could help out, so he'd have to go into childcare. So am I expected to put him in breakfast club AND after school club during term time as well as full time school, then full time childcare during the holidays? Forget the cost moneywise, what about the cost to the FAMILY - my son will feel so unloved if I'm spending that much time away from him :( It really makes me sad to think about it.
My plan is to apply for college to start in September to do an access course, then hopefully onto University to do Criminology and Psychology. Then we can still have our holiday time together PLUS when I am back to work I hopefully won't be on minimum wage, I will have more job options and he will be that little bit older, also my mum plans on being retired then so he can be cared for by family rather than strangers.
I know the government helps (a little) with childcare costs but surely it works out cheaper for them to keep mum at home?

GibberingFlapdoodle - interesting articles, I agree businesses/employers need to think agility not flexibility.

My DD's excellent nursery opens 7am to 7pm - wouldn't ever leave her there 7-7 but it means if one day both of us need to leave early, or another day the one picking up gets stuck in traffic, we can manage.

Well we can manage nursery pick ups and drop offs but carrying on working once at home to meet deadlines, sick children, sick mum and dad, all a challenge with two full time jobs..... Two 30 hour week jobs would massively reduce the childcare costs and improve the quality of life for the whole family, perhaps NEF is on to something?

Cookies - 2 x 30 hour a week jobs might massively decrease childcare costs and improve quality of life - but the government is currently trialling ways to penalise any parents on universal credit who might try this (min 35 hour week, or sanctions applied). So will not be an option for large numbers of people.

I agree, btw. My DP and I both work four day weeks. So much easier to deal with time off when DS is ill as for 4 days out of 7, we have a parent at home. Plus makes so many other things easier.

Makes me cross this is being ruled out for so many for completely ideological reasons.

hazel "I know the government helps (a little) with childcare costs but surely it works out cheaper for them to keep mum at home?". I can't speak for the government, but it doesn't quite work like that as far as I know. I don't want to be a broken record on this thread, but...

Let's say the government gives a parent (typically mother) a type of subsidy - for the sake of the example, we'll call it £100. The parent can use that £100 to stay at home and subsidise or replace their earnings, or, that £100 could be used to pay for childcare. If it goes to the parent, they have £100 which in theory is tax-free and they would use some of it for purchases and expenditure as necessary. They can't improve on that £100 as that is simply what they get. Or, £100 is paid to a childcare provider who pays tax on it, then uses it for purchases/expenditure, and it serves as an investment it in their business and provides employment to them or others, and the parent can become employed and also earn money independently of the government, pay tax on that, spend their money, invest etc, and have scope for earning more. Basically, a government will get more bang for their buck by paying for childcare for working parents than simply paying a parent to stay at home. This is aside from any other benefits, like potential for increased skill development/training of both parent and childcare provider, improved long term job prospects, etc.

I'm not saying I argue for one way or the other, just that I can see why a government would prefer paying for childcare than supporting stay at home parenting. My issue is that despite the current support for childcare, it is prohibitively expensive and leads people to stop or reduce working when they actually want to, and this impacts mostly on women in the workplace as mothers are usually the affected party. In reality this can't be changed overnight as that would require a huge culture shift, but it would be nice to get the ball rolling.

I also feel like the working world in general can be quite unkind to parents. Our plan is pretty much crossing bridges as they come and hoping for the best until they're old enough to spend an hour or two alone! That doesn't seem like a fantastic plan but I think it's what a lot of people have to do.

Hazel - I can understand how someone at home can look at childcare and think it is wrong. Having used it and seen my kids experience it I can tell you that it is no bad thing IF the kids are in a good program.

DD has been exposed to Spanish and my mother, who is fluent, tells me her vocab is pretty good. I don't speak Spanish to my kids so this did not come from me! Then there are the activities. I would be exhausted if I had to prepare for half the stuff they do in their program. They have a team so are able to do far more than I could on my own at home.

I will say that my son has a speech delay and daycare we use has been working on helping him. They have a speech therapist on staff who has been working with him. We are stopping full time care because I will be staying home and we can't justify spending so much each month.

DD will be attending summer camp. Cost is $500 a week which is reasonable given the activities they do. There are 2-3 visits to attractions such as the zoo, aquarium etc. I can also spend an additional $50 a week and have her learn how to swim. It's very good value for money and a great experience for her.

hazel PS I was in all sorts of full time and wraparound childcare from about 5mo, there were bits of it I didn't like - mainly it was the lack of freedom to do as I would at home, and I found my summer school to be particularly boring. However I never felt unloved because of it. My mum was always clear and open about her need to work (LP, mortgage, debts, etc, plus me of course!). So if you do find yourself putting your DS into childcare or wraparound care, please don't think it will automatically make him feel unloved, one thing I always knew was how much my mum loved me, all that hard work to support us financially was part of that. It's hard to let go of the DCs and I've had plenty of weepy moments over leaving them when I have to work, but they seem fine, I think I'm much more soppy about it than they are!

But hazel - how and why should the gov pay for the stay at home parent to stay at home after the child goes to school?! Surely if you wish for that, it should be funded privately, whether through reliance of savings, inheritance, parents, partner etc?!

This thread is about how childcare is unaffordable and many posters have posted that it's much more than what the gov has proposed. It is not wrong to use childcare, paid as well. If we rely on our extended family, isn't it the same, outsourcing childcare - just to someone in the family (who may or may not be good)?

You can't have your cake and eat it all with whipped cream on top!

I went back to work out how much it cost us to have 2 in nursery and 1 with a child minder pre and after school for three days a week.
Including holiday clubs - £13000 a year.

Also, it is never cheaper to stay home. I am a qualified accountant so will be looking at going back to work at the level I am leaving as I am due for a promotion this year. My employer is willing to keep the door open in part because they want DH's employer as a client and my department is headed by someone who has a disabled child so fully understands what I am going through. I honestly can't speak more highly of the help my department has given me.

Very very few parents are in this position. For the 99.9% of employees leaving the workforce means you are looking at going back in at starting salary level. If you keep working, even on a part time basis, you are in a completely different situation than if you stop.

I am looking down the barrel of stopping work for approx 2 years and I am feeling very vulnerable about this. Yes I am fortunate that it has no financial impact to our family. However, what if DH decides to up and leave in 5-10 years from now? I will be left trying to resurrect my career to provide for my DC.

Also, it isn't lost on me that if we lived in the UK I wouldn't have the choice to work. I am incredibly thankful to the US that they have given me the option to work. Now my son has needs which require more parental input so working doesn't make sense. I am still incredibly thankful to the State of New Jersey that they have such a wonderful early intervention program.

I think the government in the UK should be doing a heck of a lot more for families than they are. Helping them with childcare is the first area. It should never not pay to work. It is a sad day when the help for families in the US is far more than the help provided in the UK.

Hazel at our school over half the children from nursery up are in full wrap round care plus some holiday clubs etc. they are all fine. They are very much loved and know it but their working parents