Parents refuse help from midwives at homebirth - baby dies

[mears]

Can anyone find me a link for this? Questions are being raised to change the law in cases where parents refusing professional assistance results in death of baby. The couple in question refused to let midwives intervene at the breech birth of their daughter. When eventually transferred to hospital it was discovered she was having twins and the second baby was delivered safely by C/S.

mine also breech at 37 weeks, also successfully turned by ECV as planned home birth & wted to avoid c/s (really recommend ECV, think it's 50% success rate) they were going to let me try anyway w/o c/s but probably not at home. don't think personally that's safe for breech.

My 2nd child was breech until very late - was having regular scans anyway due to problems with placenta - they then discoverd at 36 weeks, he was still breech.

My midwife said I would be booked for C-section if he didn't shift, but both my GP and Consultant were happy for a vaginal delivery BUT it depended on his weight.

My first birth was a drawn-out affair resulting in a forceps delivery as DD1 twisted into an awkward position right at the last minute.

The weight the Consultant gave me as the cut-off was 8lb - as DD1 was 8lb 1oz anyway, I thought it was likely No 2 would weigh more.

However, everything was booked for a vaginal delivery - and then lo and behold, at the 39 week scan he was discovered head-down - in perfect position. I then asked to be induced at that point - which was done the next day.

I thought the case in the US was outrageous. It seems part of a worrying trend over there to deny all human rights to pregnant women. The woman in question was accused of opting out of a caesarian because she didn't want 'to be cut open from here to here' ie an old-fashioned length-wise cut. But she said this was rubbish, she'd already had two c-sections and she didn't turn down a third - sounded really strange and think there must have been far more behind it. Birth is far more medicalised in the States, it would appear, with p/g women ordered to obey their obstetricians ? think Michel Odent needs to get over there. Who knows whether her baby would have died anyway, sadly it does happen. I guess part of it is obstetricians covering their own backs to avoid litigatoin - easier to blame the woman for acting against worst case scenario 'advice' (more like an order according to the Guardian piece a few weeks ago). Imagine you would never be 'allowed' vaginal delivery for a breech baby over there...

I mean the baby in the US case referred to by Ghosty, not the case that started this thread - that sounded absolutely apalling and can't imagine what the parents were thinking.

Thanks for your thoughts on breech homebirths (or not ). I'm not quite at the stage to be worried just yet, but it's interesting to see what sort of advice has been given to others in that position.

Eddm - obstetrician in the US are starting to hate birth doulas as they are witnesses of their (bad) practices !!!!

Odent is well known in the US.

Interesting to see your reactions to this story - I read it very differently... I think parents had their reason to be fearful of MWs/Drs (and we don't know what those are so we can't judge).... I have also personnally witnessed (very) abusive and bullying behaviour by midwives at home adn in hospital and can "theoretically" understand the fear and refusal of help.
Swearing at them (parents) makes no difference I am sure they are sader than you are upset!

just think it's sad. Midwives might interfere, but they are professionals and know a lot more about childbirth and its complications than we do....what is more important the couple getting it right on their own or the wellbeing of their baby (there is just no comparison)

pupuce, I had this reaction from a midwife here when I mentioned having a doula
"We don't 'get on' with them. We often find they are more interested in the mother than the wellbeing of the baby."
I have to admit, part of the reason I am considering involving a female friend with experience as a doula IS to mediate between myself and medics, if neccesary. I have full trust that my doula friend would always put my babys safety first, but manage to combine this with consideration for my thoughts and wishes. I don't want (and possibly wouldn't be able!) to fight any battles during the birth of my baby. I was reading some stuff written by Mary Cronk yesterday, her views on breech extraction vs breech birth made interesting reading (and if anything have encouraged me to want to involve my friend!).

Pupuce, them's fighting words. I loved my OBs both in the US and in the UK. I believe firmly in the consistency of care -- hence my love of doulas.

I am offended that you have slapped my OB with a bad (even in parentheses) practice label. She was the one who got me through my first pregnancy (it was horrid) and through the birth (OP and much easier than the pregnancy). There was no one who could have supported me more. She was my advocate and I trusted her completely. With good reason, it turned out. So for me not to defend her now would be unthinkable.

Levanna - I am glad you are more enlighten.... we do not care more about the mum than the baby - that ios just stupid ! But yes we do think we are aiming at having a healthy baby and a HEALTHY (thay means psychologically too!) mummy!!!!!

JJ - it's not on this thread that I mentioned OBs - is it???
There are great docs, MW and doulas and there are crap ones too

However there are some women who have felt "abused" by their medical professional - hence their deep rooted fear.

Levanna, that's why I made sure I had one birth partner who had seen it before and could be assertive on my behalf as well as dh. What I hadn't bargained for was one midwife to seven women, so problem was almost the opposite ? no battles because no-one proposing to do anything about me . Think got left 'alone' ie with birth partners so much partly because I wasn't particularly exiting (all went well, thank heavens) and partly because I did have people with me. Hope your hospital has better staffing, but maybe worth raising this with doula - what would she do if midwife just wasn't there much?

Thanks for the tip eddm . Hopefully wont be a problem as (hopefully!) we're having a homebirth this time. With my DD, we were lucky enough to be attended by at least one midwife all the time. But, I can understand what you mean, though TBH if all is going well I think we'd be happy enough with as few people in and out as possible . If for any reason we did have to go into hospital, I think I realy would like my friend to be there as the likelyhood is that if that's occured it's because there's something up - so I'd like her to be there all the more.

Levanna, hope your baby turns before the birth or you can have an ECV, I had a planned homebirth after a successful ECV and was so relieved not to have to go into hospital, I would not have attempted a breech homebirth.

Whilst I fully understand that some couple feel they want no intervention and want to do things their own way, this story really upset me.

What really hit home was the lack of oxygen part - midwives forgot to pack the tubing and masks for the oxygen (and entonox)in the box for my second homebirth. Feel so lucky nothing went wrong, check your boxes homebirth ladies!

Thanks Midden, loads of time yet . This has just interested me as I happened to have a discussion about breech birth recently with my midwife.