Never thought - going vegetarian

[jmill]

I feel upset about recent abattoir stories in the news recently regarding their horrific treatment of animals. It put me off eating meat in an instant, those men are bullying monsters, and I bet it goes on in loads of other places. I feel shameful having ever eaten meat.

And it doesn't turn them all vegan? Some care for animals that shows.

No it doesn't. A large number of vets and vet students support farmers and the meat and dairy industry.

Vets are employed in labs, fisheries, abattoirs, in defra, in the army, ngos and charities as well as the usual work in clinics.

They don't just do the fluffy work off animal hospital.

Plenty of hillsides can produce lamb or goat meat, and possibly raise cows, but not crops as the soil isn't good enough. Can be a more environmentally friendly form of protein than producing importing tofu or exotic beans.

Vets and inspectors do do unannounced visits to abbatoirs - been there myself - and generally they have high standards with no more suffering than an animal killed by a vet in any other circs.

I was a vegetarian for some years but on more research decided I personally was content with production standards of meat in the UK. Killing animals is never going to be pretty but doesn't have to cause suffering.

Human beings are naturally omnivorous so whilst the need for meat, fish or dairy products is debatable, the demand is not going to go away. Comparisons with human slavery are offensive. To say that only vegans are capable of being animal lovers is equally offensive.

Yes, I find the implication that all vets who aren't vegan are corrupt in some way to be peer insulting. Ironically the average vet has more first hand experience and knowledge of meat production and slaughter than Abby.

And care for animals can be expressed through ensuring their welfare during meat production. Which is somewhat more realistic, practical and (from the animal's perspective) beneficial than being an outraged keyboard warrior.

peer = pretty

Go for it.

I don't think it is going away anytime soon, countries which are becoming more prosperous are increasing their consumption, such as China. There was a very good Horizon show over three parts about meat and it's environmental impact recently. My feeling is also like a previous poster, that I should only eat what I could look in the eye and kill.

Does anyone know an abattoir worker? I genuinely cannot fathom how someone could do that job day in day out. I guess you must have to switch off. It must be awful, how could it not affect you?

I question 'animal lovers' who eat meat, but only in a literal sense. I say 'No, you love SOME animals.'

Humans may have grown to be omnivorous. They also grew to be murderers and rapists. The fact that It's an established habit doesn't mean It's the right thing to do.

I have been in an abattoir, haven't worked in one but been in one.

I hate to be judgmental, but most people who worked in there were not quite ..... (Does not want to say anymore for fear of being accused of being disablist.).

Apple and Sunflower...
I too just don't understand why someone could work all day killing animals ?, I just don't get it. I have only really started thinking about this since the subject came on the news, the realisation of it all is just too much.

Didn't that lottery winner guy who spent all his money on banger cars and raced them in the back garden of his mansion end up working in an abbatoir after he had spent all his millions on parties and drugs?

Advice is to only eat red meat once a week, reading between the lines that says to me 'red meat is bad for you'.

Being veggie is going surprisingly well and easy, Linda McCartney range is super !

So is there a vet in every abbatoir all the time, then? I thought there'd be inspections but not a resident vet as such. So is it on a rota mixed in with other vet work? If not, does it feel odd to have trained all that time and then be a vet in an abbatoir? Fluffy bunny work is dull, I'm sure but there's lots of other types of vet work. My grandad had an abbatoir - guess if I eat meet

I heard from the world food security committee or some such that we will have to be veggie as its unsustainable to keep importing or growing grain etc for feed.

I used to be vegan, many years ago. Was horrified by pictures I saw of farming and slaughter practices. BUT I also knew I didn't know enough IYKWIM, to really own my opinions. So I went to college and studied animal management to degree level. A close look at the management practices, ethics and welfare etc in every corner of the animal industry was a real eye opener, especially in connnection with the impact on the environment and wildlife.

There is still so much wrong in the way we produce our food, but interestingly, I did come out a meat eater, albeit a fussy one; with a basic belief in the food chain and a passion for welfare and standards. I thoroughly respect others who don't share that belief and choose not to eat meat or dairy, and hugely appreciate the tireless campaiging of many which has laid the foundations for vastly improved welfare standards and which continues to expose practices which fall far short of acceptable. There is still a long way to go.

Vets working in abattoirs sometimes do so full time but others do it in addition to clinical work. It requires extra training to act in an official vet capacity during slaughter except in emergency cases.

With regard to the questions about how a vet deals with that aspect of the job, it is important to remember that we are trained to care for animals throughout the meat production process, from helping to make sure pregnant animals get the right nutrition, assisting them if they get into difficulties giving birth and then caring for the health of their offspring. Health and welfare are inextricably linked, so good health is a cornerstone of good welfare. Attending the slaughterhouse is a natural extension of this duty of care.

No vet is under any illusions that when they help to deliver a calf and make sure its mother is comfortable and healthy, that animal is destined for meat. Having worked amongst farmers all my life I know the pride they take in their animals and their care and concern for welfare. It isn't unusual for a farmer to have pet cows who've been on farm a long time and won't have any more calves (so just cost money to keep) but are given a home for life because they are special. Most farmers are far from cruel. They are much better at seeing the very many shades of grey in a situation than some other people are.

Oh I wasn't saying farmers are cruel. Shades of grey? Isn't that another thread?

Being an omnivore is akin to being a murderer or rapist? ..... Ridiculous

I am surprised by the number of people defending the meat industry saying it's all fine and humane, with vets etc. Sure in the UK, with our standards when actually monitored, it may be an "alright" environment for an animal to go and be killed.

How much of the meat in supermarkets is from these places? How many of you defending the meat industry remember that most beef was found to be horse meat recently! No one has any idea where the meat you buy actually comes from.

The worrying increase in halal meat with it's anachronistic sacrifice style of meat production, where it is against 'belief' for the animal to be stunned, so while yes of course it is supposed to be stunned, how much of it slips through done the 'proper' way? probably a fair bit.

Not to mention the global and environmental impact of meat production compared to other foods.

The impact of the massive volume of methane gas which is produced by cows populating the planet for our beef, contribute more to global warming and the 'greenhouse effect' than humans.

See recent Carbon Footprint article in New Scientist for more on the industry's destructive impact

So while people will never be convinced to give up meat for all of the reasons mentioned above (convenience etc) it is naive to defend the industry in any way.

I am a vegetarian vet and I have only ever met a couple of others! I have been veggie for nearly 30 years and my abattoir time at uni was like torture.

Ps my experience of abattoirs is cruelty and fear staffed mainly by low education staff who couldn't give a shit if the animal suffered.

Vegan here - used to be a fussy omnivore (only naice local meat and free-range eggs) then went vegan overnight because I felt too guilty eating meat/dairy/eggs. The UK system is better than many, but still not great; I keep having to wonder if I'm being lied to about food origins (British 'beef' horse anyone)?

I have wondered why more vegans and vegetarians don't adopt realistic targets and support higher animal welfare standards/'Eat less meat' initiatives; surely improved welfare and reduced consumption would be better than the current situation.

No one has any idea where the meat comes from.....

Truth is that we do when it's primary cuts, from a reputable source and clearly labelled. Where all food has the potential to be adulterated and contaminated tends to be when it's heavily processed and/or the manufacturer is cutting corners to save money. Applies just as much to veggie burgers as beef burgers. Cheap and unhealthy transfats being slipped in, for example.

Defending the meat industry doesn't mean it can't improve. But so can other food producers.

Absolutely agree Plumping.

Agree the recent stories about abattoir abuse are awful.

Horrible vague ideas about abattoir workers somehow being a bit weird/uneducated/cruel going on here though. Lots of people do 'distasteful' jobs. Perhaps they are uneducated but the money is good? Maybe it's the only local work they could find. I have a friend who kills baby chicks for his job. Everyday kills the baby chicks. He is a lovely man with 2 DC who needs to pay his bills. He isn't getting off on the power.

Some people just don't have the same priorities as others. I eat meat. I buy it from supermarkets/farm shops or anywhere else that sells it. I don't buy the cheapest but I also don't buy the most expensive. I care that animals aren't being gratuitously abused, I think any right minded person does. But I don't care enough about animals as a whole to stop eating meat. It sounds awful admitting that but I just don't. If they are raised and slaughtered within guidelines I'm fine with eating them.

I fully admit I'm not an 'animal' person though. They serve a purpose as food. Some serve a purpose as pets. I can't get emotional about them.

I have a distant past in agriculture, had visits to abattoirs as part of the course I did, worked on several farms over a few years.
I eat meat and am happy to do so.
If there was an end to the meat, dairy and poultry industry, where would all the animals go? There would surely be mass extinction, apart from a few special breeds kept going in zoos farms, but nowadays there is no way all the beautiful variety of farm animals would be kept.

I once went to a local ag show with a very vocal vegan, who stopped to chat loudly to the sheep and cows, berating their owners that their fate would be to end up on a plate. She couldn't get her head around no meat eating = no farm animals, she though the animals would happily graze without ever being slaughtered, that they would happily breed and have idyllic lives. This simply wouldn't happen.

If there were no farm animals, there would be drastic changes to our beautiful countryside, lowland and moorland and everything in between.
There wouldn't be enough land to grow the crops we would need, so much of Britain's land is too high to be of any use to produce crops. I imagine the country's economy would take a massive hit as so many jobs are linked to farming.

Where all food has the potential to be adulterated and contaminated tends to be when it's heavily processed and/or the manufacturer is cutting corners to save money. Applies just as much to veggie burgers as beef burgers. Cheap and unhealthy transfats being slipped in, for example.

I agree, that's why I try not to eat them. But it feels worse to eat a dirty burger that some animal died to be part of than to eat a dirty burger that's mostly made of veg. Wasn't there a report of something like DNA from 10,000 distinct cows in one McDonalds burger? I can only find a news report admitting to 'over 100' but that's still quite unpleasant.

I really feel like the quality of food was at its best back when you got your meat from a local butcher, your eggs from local owners and your veg from your garden/friends. The advent of globalisation and mass production, while progressive in some ways, has sent us backwards in terms of food quality IMO.