Madonna adopting a child?

[fartmeistergeneral]

Sorry if this has been done, can't see it anywhere.

I'm quite stunned by this actually. She is adopting a one year old boy who's mother has died. The father of the child said (reportedly) that he was sad to say goodbye to his son but he would have a better life in America.

Is this right?

I heard on Jeremy Vine last week a woman who was adopted from Africa and lived in London and who was now a successful lawyer or some such thing. She said she had had a great life, but would have preferred to stay with her family and her people. Interestingly she said that people always said to her 'you're so lucky, the opportunities you've had in this country' and she always replied 'what? I'm lucky that my mother died in childbirth and that I was removed from my entire family?' Interesting to hear it from that side.

I don't want this to be a discussion on adopting from other countries, that's different.

What I'm saying is, Madonna has more wealth than she could ever spend in her lifetime. Surely, instead of removing this boy from his family she could have paid for the entire village to have a new school, new water system, new farming machinery, whatever they needed to make their lives better. Instead of removing the child from his father. It smacks of selfishness that she wanted just wanted the child, and left the rest of them in their poverty. It's like, Madonna has so much, money, everything and what's left? A project?

Please don't be offended all you who have adopted abroad. That's not the issue here, it's the wealth of the woman and the difference she could have made.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, what do you all think?

[Twohootsandapumpkin]

Smokey - sorry don't get what you mean? I couldn't afford to go and build and orphanage in another country and 'buy' a child in the process. I think her wealth (and that of other celebs adopting) does have an awful lot to do with it compared to us. Their wealth IS the reason these women are allowed to take these children.

[smokey]

Of course we can't build an orphanage like her, but we still have disposable income beyond those villagers' wildest dreams. I'm sure that a small amount of our money could still make a huge difference to them and it's all a question of degree. The same moral principles would apply to any one of us adopting such a child. I feel very uncomfortable about this adoption, but not because Madonna's richer than me. I personally would feel as if I was "buying" the child and feel it's wrong to take a child away from its remaining family merely because they can't afford to look after him.

[sorrell]

Well I do donate money to children's charities. I have no problems with overseas adoptions in principle, but would worry if a child had a father and grandparents in his home country and it was SOLELY a matter of money that prevented his being cared for at home. That seems exploitative to me, esp if putting it right involved your smallest of small change. Madonna's case may be very different. Maybe the father doesn't love or want the child at all.

[Issymum]

I understand your sentiments Sorrell, but in practice it's tricky. The circumstances of our adoption were different, but I and most adoptive parents have thought about this.

Say a child is in an orphanage, she is there because her extended family is or says it is unable to afford to look after her. As an adoptive parent I want to adopt her. But I don't, I make a 20 year commitment to the family and move on to the next child. That child also happens to be there for reasons of poverty. I make another 20 year commitment and move on. I'm a wealthy Westerner and poverty is the main ostensible reason these children are in the orphanage, so I just keep paying. I'm now beginning to run out of money and have noticed a very long queue of parents placing children in the orphanage in the hopes that they too will get 20 years' financial support from prospective adoptive parents. So I find a child without any extended family and adopt it. Word gets around and every adoptive parent after me asks not to be allocated a child who is available for adoption for reasons of poverty. So those that are in the orphanage for reasons of poverty stay there.

I'm not saying that I don't agree with your immediate inclination to pay money to the family so that they can keep the child, but the ramifications of that happening more than occasionally are not straight forward.

Now I will stay away from this thread!

[donnie]

Madonna PLC.

love it.

Agree with all the ranters!

[sorrell]

Good point well made Issymum. But isn't it a huge tragedy that so many children are in orphanages simply due to poverty? Just appalling.
And I'm still not sure about Madonna...

[Twohootsandapumpkin]

Callisto - don't know about the US but do you really think the UK SS would allow Madonna to adopt a child - I don't think for one minute that they would tbh!

Issy - please don't take it personally I have no issue with inter-country adopting at all and am pleased you have two lovely children from the process. My rant is with these celebs who, like someone said earlier, think these babies are nothing more than the latest gucci bag or something. Angelina Jolie has just said she wants to adopt from every continent WTF?

There are plenty of childless couples in the UK that would give their right arms to have a child no matter what bloody country they come from but some just can't afford it - it can cost a lot to adopt abroad. Why give Madonna the bloody chance - because she can throw the most wedge their way . Why not give a chance to those other childless couples who will spend more time with the child and not see it as an accessory (and most certainly change it's nappies!!!). FGS.

[fartmeistergeneral]

His name is David apparently, hope she doesn't change it to Sergio or something (no offence to parents of Sergios, actually like that name, but you know what I'm getting at).

[Callisto]

That was my point entirely TwoHoots - corruption is so rife on the African continent that I am sure all Madge had to do was grease a few palms with a few thousand dollars and bingo which child would you like madam. I feel really worried that this sets a very bad precedent and that by this one act Madonna has effectivly pointed the way to an easy source of very vulnerable children. I do so hope that I am over reacting, please tell me I'm wrong.

[Callisto]

Probably call him Malawi or something equally dumb. I love your name btw fartmeister - it is what we call our greyhound whose farts could be used for making chemical bombs.

[Judy1234]

If I were her I'd have got a child somewhere else simply because it's not that easy to bring up a child of a different colour. Presumably she'll adopt in the US and then get the child a US passport nad bring it back here. One UK actress who is about 50 I think adopted in the US as has a house there so was not subject to UK SS and age rules etc.

[somethingunderthebedisdrooling]

'bloody social tourist' is kind if you ask me. more like a social prostitute to me.

[kittythescarygoblin]

You know it reminds me of that wonderfuly funny Harry Enfield sketch with waynetta slob wanting a " brown baby" beacuse all the "other muvers on the estate" had one. I can't see the difference here at all except for money.

[themoon666]

Just read in Sunday Times that the father of the child is insisting that he comes to visit regularly to check his son is being cared for properly.

[fartmeistergeneral]

yes the moon, but did you also read the quote from the uncle saying his brother has been taken advantage of because he is very poorly educated, can't read or write etc. He is demanding that they get to see the child during his life. Felt sad when I read that he said 'our child'.

The article did say that although it seems to us that she's jetted over and picked a child, that the process has most likely been going on for a good long while and they would have to go through the same forms etc as everyone else.

Did seethe at the bit that said it may have been accelerated due to Madonna's 'special circumstances'. Meaning money I guess.

Also, interestingly Ewan McGregor has also adopted abroad, from Mongolia. Remember he visited an orphanage there when he did Long Way Round. Funnily enough I don't feel so bad about that adoption, very unfair of me I know, but I just think Ewan would do it for right reasons.

[themoon666]

Yes. Reading the uncle's point of view, it would seem that the child has a pretty extended family already. It would be funny if Madonna found herself playing hostess to said extended family every 6 months or so. She could easily afford to look after the whole family in one of her many lovely homes.

[HappyMumof2]

Message withdrawn

[bovvered]

Sorry havrn't read whole thread and only skimmed this in news, but if father is that concerned an family that extended, why was the child in an orphanage?

All smells tad dodgy to me, anybody consider the fact that perhaps the father is smart enough to work out this situation could work in his favour? Or maybe not smart enough to see when he's being manipulated by the press?

[VoodooBanana]

I havent got time to read this whole thread, so sorry if repeating...

I think it is odd she has done it, I feel for the boys father,

but I always wonder how these celebs work out their wills when they have their own kids too. What if in a few yrs a helicopter containing Madge and Guy (god forbid) crashes, leaving Lourdes, Rocco and David...Rocco is his only son, Lourdes and Rocco her only two...would David be sent straight back?

Same with jolie and Pitt now theyve had Shiloe, will she inherit the lions share, leaving Maddox and the other girl out??

Sorry if this is an odd point but I cant help but wonder!

[VoodooBanana]

How sad for the 10 other boys lined up for her to choose from
See this wks Heat magazine for a funny article

[Vindaloo]

Hi have just skimmed the threads.

It really pisses me off when people like Madonna think they are above the law and can do what they want because of their wealth and status. what about the child?? will he be forced into Kabballah? will he get to know his cultural heritage? Will he ever get to visit his family? Why couldnt she have given the loose change from her pocket to the father to support the child. I read that the boys uncle stated that the illiterate father is being taken advantage of, how depressing.

Ever since I heard about this I have been so furious. I suppose this is Madonna's latest fashion accessory, yet again massaging her already inflated ego.

Dont get me wrong I have no problem with international adoptions, its just the fact that Madonna seems to have fast-tracked the normal routes (for example; prospective parents are meant to have lived in Malawi for 18 months before adoption).

So whats her next career move - buying the moon?

Forgive me, I dont normally rant but on this occasion.....

[vipersister2]

Just a thought, but why is Madonna blamed for snatching this child from the bosom of his family when he's spent over 12 months in an orphanage? Not her decision to put him there. I guess she thought/was told the father had made a realistic and permanent decision. And the uncle? Suddenly he's saying the family should see where the child will be brought up.. would that have happened if [for instance] an anonymous South African couple had wanted to adopt David? Without a media pack yelling in their ears that they should be outraged I think the entire family would have been relieved for the child. And the woman on JV last week who said she wished she'd been left with her family in Africa and not adopted in the UK and raised to become a lawyer or something.. hmm. Maybe if she had spent 25 years walking 3 miles a day to a tap she might have wished otherwise.
Jeez, the world is not fair. Huge imbalances in wealth and opportunity all over. But communism didn't work so what's next? And while I'm ranting, Bob Geldof has spent a huge part of his life [we're talking vast parts of 20 years, not the odd weekend] trying in the face of overwhelming Western disinterest, to help African countries get a better deal. If the man wants to ask me in his usual forthright fashion for a tenner, I'm listening.

[LittleWonder]

Good for Madge. Long thread so haven't read much, but I have worked in African orphanages. The children living in orphanages are without parents. If one exists somewhere, the fact that they are in the orphanage makes them one. Secondly, the mortatlity rates are so high in most places that by adopting you will probably save a life. she could not do this in secret because of who she is. she has helped the village financially as well. giving money is not always the best thing, have you any idea how often these funds are misappropriated?
Would there be all this fuss if she was a regular civilian?
It's always easier to jump on the media bandwagon. I wonder how many of you would change your tunes after working in the orphanages and seeing the children die?

[Callisto]

None of us are debating the fact that the child is better off out of an orphanage. But the problem is that Madonna bought a baby. I find this extremely disturbing as do the childrens charities who are trying to appeal the decision. If money talks in this way, what is to stop anyone with enough cash walking in to an orphanage and buying a baby for whatever purpose they choose?

[sunchowder]

IssyMum, brilliant,heartfelt postings and thanks for taking the time to do it.