Madonna adopting a child?

[fartmeistergeneral]

Sorry if this has been done, can't see it anywhere.

I'm quite stunned by this actually. She is adopting a one year old boy who's mother has died. The father of the child said (reportedly) that he was sad to say goodbye to his son but he would have a better life in America.

Is this right?

I heard on Jeremy Vine last week a woman who was adopted from Africa and lived in London and who was now a successful lawyer or some such thing. She said she had had a great life, but would have preferred to stay with her family and her people. Interestingly she said that people always said to her 'you're so lucky, the opportunities you've had in this country' and she always replied 'what? I'm lucky that my mother died in childbirth and that I was removed from my entire family?' Interesting to hear it from that side.

I don't want this to be a discussion on adopting from other countries, that's different.

What I'm saying is, Madonna has more wealth than she could ever spend in her lifetime. Surely, instead of removing this boy from his family she could have paid for the entire village to have a new school, new water system, new farming machinery, whatever they needed to make their lives better. Instead of removing the child from his father. It smacks of selfishness that she wanted just wanted the child, and left the rest of them in their poverty. It's like, Madonna has so much, money, everything and what's left? A project?

Please don't be offended all you who have adopted abroad. That's not the issue here, it's the wealth of the woman and the difference she could have made.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, what do you all think?

[eenywifemum]

I just saw on the news that the boy had lived in an orphanage from 7 days old. And that Madonna is building the village a new orphanage. So he hasnt been snatched from the loving arms of his father AND she is putting something into the community.

[sorrell]

I feel really uneasy about this. This boy has lived in this country all his life. He has a father and grandparents and maybe, one day, siblings in this country. His father - apparently - couldn't look after him after the baby's mother died in childbirth because he has to work long, long hours to scratch a living as a farmer. But maybe if Madonna was willing to give him what is merely a scrap of loose change to her every month, he or his family could look after that little boy. Maybe there is more to it, but if a tiny bit of money could mean that boy could live with his family, wouldn't that be better? Obviously not so much fun for Madonna though. Are there really no children with no families at all for her to scoop up?

[sorrell]

Actually, I just don't understand the super rich at ALL. Madonna has so much money yet she pours it into the ridiculous con-trick that is Kaballah, while she could use her millions to utterly transform the lives of thousands of children. Wouldn't that be more rewarding and more fun? Stephen Fry made me feel sick on his 'poor me' bipolar programme when he was going on about his horrible, wasteful spending habits without a trace of shame (buying every single film out on video with no intention of watching the vast majority) when he could help so many people if he wasn't so very selfish.
Same goes for the billionaires hectoring people for money on Live Aid etc etc. Show us YOUR fucking money Mr Geldof! Sell one of your multi-million pound houses for a start before you start lecturing ME, you twat.
Ah, that feels better

[themoon666]

sorrell.... well said.

[themoon666]

I read something that made me laugh (might have been on MN or in the paper)

Bona stood on stage slow-clapping... says into microphone 'everytime I clap a child dies'.

Some wit out in the audience shouts 'well stop fucking clapping then'.

Not relevant to this thread, but I just remembered it and smiled.

[sorrell]

Bono....oooh, don't get me started!

[themoon666]

Feel free to rant Sorrell.

[welliemum]

at Sorrell's comment about Stephen Fry. I've no particular interest in Stphen Fry or in bipolar disorder but it's clear enough that the man is ill and his illness causes him to have spectacularly poor judgement.

Criticising him for making poor choices is like saying a blind person is stupid because they can't read the newspaper. Completely out of order IMO.

[welliemum]

Oh, and Madonna...

There are millions (literally) of true orphans in Africa, but most of those were orphaned by AIDS, and are at risk of having HIV themselves.... so nobody wants them.

[Twohootsandapumpkin]

eenywifemum - sorry but I do not agree. She may be building an orphanage etc - great. And yes if that little boy has been in care since 7 do then poor little mite does need a home BUT I still think the only thing that got Madonna this child is her MONEY! Plain and simple. Like I said earlier if she were like the rest of us mere mortals her past and morals (or lack of them) certainly wouldn't have got her through the piles of red tape to adopt in this country. And I'm sorry but neither would Angelina Jolie no matter how much good she does. Do you know I have a friend who cannot have children (been through various IVF attempts and had a heartbreaking miscarriage at 12 wks with the only 'successful' attemnpt. Her and her lovely DH are now following the adoption route but have been told in no uncertain terms that they can only adopt if she doesn't go back to work - even part time - that is only one of the stipulations on them). Do you think AJ or Madonna will work and spend every waking hr with these kids - the earlier comment about never changing nappies makes me think not!

Sorry I am not normally so vocal but this celebrity 'craze' of adopting poor little orphans by no means other than their money makes me SICK! You know who it will be next don't you - Jennifer Aniston - she has already said she wants a kid by xmas (and I don't see any signs of a preggers belly on her?)!!!!

PS - As for Bob Geldof - don't profess to have much opinion on the man but I believe he gives thousands and thousands away to charity every year from what I've heard (cynic in me sometimes thinks it's a valid way for v rich people to 'tax dodge').

Am ready for the fall out here.....

[Twohootsandapumpkin]

Also meant to say that said friend doesn't live in a huge, grand house (but comfortable) and they are going to have to sell to adopt if she has to give up work. Maybe Madonna or Angelina would like to help them out.....??

[fartmeistergeneral]

Didn't realise that the boy was living in an orphanage, but I still haven't changed my mind. It's extremely complex, too much for my pea brain but as I said hearing that woman on JV made me see the other side. I'm extremely shallow and when she was talking about what her life would have been like had she been left in Africa - walking miles to get fresh water, tending the fields for 12 hours a day, having loads of children - my initial shallow thought was wow, just as well she was brought to this country. But she carried on talking and I realised what a wrench it was for her that her family was still out there living a decent life. Poor and hard, but who are we to say that our life here is 'better'?

Madonna pisses me off anyway. I loathe that kind of wealth. To me, if you have more money than you can spend in your lifetime, give the rest away fgs. Don't even get me started on Posh and Becks.

Loved the Bono handclapping remark. Can't wait to pass that on to someone!!!

[sorrell]

Stephen Fry is an extremely intelligent man who is clearly perfectly capable of rational thinking, self-control and making complex decisions. I was horrified that he showed absolutely no remorse at all for his profligate spending habits and was completely uninterested in even trying to curb them. It made me feel sick, to be honest. I was appalled. But he's far from the worst celebrity offender.
When people who own numerous multi-million pound houses start shouting and swearing at ordinary people because we aren't giving enough, it truly pisses me off.

[fartmeistergeneral]

can't seem to get cross with Jonathon Ross though, don't know why!!!! Every other week on his radio show he makes a reference to his big pay cheque and yet I end up laughing.

Could have a whole new thread on my feelings for Posh....

[themoon666]

In Stephen Fry's defence, he does have a pretty serious mental illness. I wonder if he gives all the unneccessary stuff he bought when in a manic phase to charity when he gets back on an even keel mentally.

Madonna, Bona, Geldoff, et al.... rant away.

[themoon666]

Posh is probably a few sandwiches short of a picnic too.

[verygoodatfirstimpressions]

sandwiches? Posh? Last time she had a meal as substantial as a sandwich was about 1997!

[fartmeistergeneral]

oops forgot to change my name back from other thread!

[Callisto]

I haven't read all of the comments on here but just wanted to say that the more I hear about Madonna adopting the more uncomfortable I feel about it. Being discussed on Jeremy Vine right now.

[Issymum]

I've made this comment lots of times before on MNet so apologies if I'm repeating myself, but as a mother of two children adopted from Asia I'm fatally drawn to these threads.

Adoption and charity are two entirely unrelated issues and it's unhelpful to conflate them. You adopt a child because you want (1) to be a parent to a child and, given all the circumstances, this is your best route to parenthood (2) to parent that child perhaps because you have an emotional, moral or even family connection with the child or (3) to help a child or perhaps that child. For most inter-country adoptive parents it's the first motive and that is generally considered by English adoption social workers as the best motive to adopt.

Inter-country adoption is sometimes, only sometimes, the best solution for an individual child who would otherwise grow up without a family. It all depends on the circumstances. When inter-country adoption works properly, the adoptive parents' motives and the child's best interests are aligned and it's a great outcome for child and adoptive parents.

Adoption should not be confused with charity; clearly if you want to help an orphanage, a community, a country or even a whole continent, then inter-country adoption is unlikely to be the most effective way to do it. Many inter-country adoptive parents do go on to become involved in charitable activities in the birth countries of their children, but there is no reason why they should be expected to do so beyond re-inforcing for their children the importance of and connection to their birth-country.

Whether Madonna should have adopted this little boy depends entirely on the circumstances. Was the boy properly 'available' for adoption, did the father give full and informed consent, can Madonna and Guy give this child the special care, long-term security and connection with his birth country that he needs? Who knows? Given the scant information available and the generally unreliable resources (Daily Mail anyone?), I'm not sure speculation is particularly useful. And for the record, I think Madonna and Guy are right in giving no comment and no information and I hope they continue to do so. The circumstances of this adoption are or should be confidential to the child.

And by the way, why shouldn't Stephen Fry spend his money on what the hell he wants? The sad part of the programme was that he didn't really want to spend that money, but was driven by his disease to do so.

[multitasker]

I feel really uncomfortable with this whole celeb adoption fad - for thats what it is, like someone earlier said she has one so I must have one etc; I'm sickened by Madonnas nappy changing remark and really - is she going to be there at bedtime and do the school run for any amount of time - who will look afrer the kids when she is recording or away on world tour? Madonna hasn't adopted a child, Madonna PLC have aquired the latest accessory.

[Callisto]

I agree Multi - I think she has adopted for entirely selfish reasons and certainly not with the child's best interests at the forefront of her decision to do so. She has bought herself a baby and I find that deeply disturbing.

I also find myself wondering what sort of life this child will actually have in Madge's fucked up world.

[smokey]

Madonna may have £millions, but we must all seem incredibly rich to that little boy's family. I'm not sure that her wealth relative to our own is particularly relevant.

[sorrell]

Re stephen fry - yes, he can waste his money as profligately as he likes, but I think that means he has no right to berate me on Red Nose Day to give my money when he wastes his so selfishly.
Yes, of course people do and should adopt because they want a child. But not at any cost. IF the only thing standing between a child in an orphanage and a child living with it's own family is money (which may not be teh case in Madonna's adoption, of course) then IMO someone like Madonna is selfish and greedy to use her money to adopt the child rather than helping him live with his own parents (if this is the case). Her wealth is extremely relevant. WHile I am very rich compared to someone on a subsidence income in the developing world, I do not have enough money to transform the lives of thousands of children, unlike Madonna. If I did, I would and I would bloody love doing it. As it is, I do what I can via charity donations.

[Callisto]

I think it is very relevant and I also wonder why she didn't adopt a child from UK/US and why she didn't give the family the chance to look after the child themselves.