Drugs (please) – is it time to decriminalise them within the UK??

[Isitmebut]

Coalitions eh?, who’d have ‘em, but this is clearly a serious subject, so shall we kick it around?

“No link between tough penalties and drug use – report”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29824764

“There is "no obvious" link between tough laws and levels of illegal drug use, a government report has found.”

“Liberal Democrat Home Office minister Norman Baker said the report, comparing the UK with other countries, should end "mindless rhetoric" on drugs policy.”

”He accused the Conservatives of "suppressing" the findings for months.”

”Tory MP Michael Ellis said the Lib Dems had "hijacked" it for political gain. The government says it has "no intention" of decriminalising drugs.”

My opening view for what it is worth, begins with that on any substance abuse, comparing other countries experiences with ours, seems to provide pants results.

For a start would we be ready for the likes of legal hubbly bubbly pipe shops, on the high street?

Do you remember extending our drinking hours was going to provide in the UK a European type “cafe culture”, where we would be sipping away to the early hours an alcoholic beverage – but has ended up with citizens lying in the gutter, vomiting, putting daily pressures on the police, NHS A&E staff, and longer term expensive damage to those citizens bodies, the NHS, and society as a whole.

I am not an expert on drug taking/abuse, but alcohol on the other hand I spent a lot of enjoyable time on that subject UNTIL a problem very close to home arose and affected the whole family.

But I’d just like to make a few points before opening the subject to the board.

• Even accepting that within the UK there is no link between ‘tough penalties and drugs’, can we afford to socially find out that if TAKING AWAY those penalties, drug use then markedly rose?

• On the subject of affordability, clearly the more money that can be spent preventing drug abusers/addicts getting into a position to commit criminal acts the better.

So are those overseas results DEPENDING on a lot more money being spent on this, when during our high budget deficit economy now and for years to come - there are so many other money pressures that urgently need more funds e.g. mental health?

• Are we in such a sad economic, social and criminal place, that for the years ahead, taking account of our apparently non café culture, it is more ‘convenient’ to keep our drugs policy as is, trying to ‘lock away’ the problem?

"One of Mexico’s most powerful drug cartels is now the main distributor of methamphetamine in Nebraska, federal law enforcement officials say"

www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/10/14/as-it-turns-out-meth-laws-have-unintended-consequences/

The same happened in prohibition. Some of the gangsters who ran the liquour trade during prohibition could turn into legitimate alcohol businesses who dominated aspects of the trade once prohibition was scrapped and could then buy up some local officials and politicians in the States.

"Accounting for drugs and prostitution to help push UK economy up by £65bn

A more inclusive approach to GDP comes into force in September to comply with EU rules on measuring the economy"

www.theguardian.com/business/2014/jun/10/accounting-drugs-prostitution-uk-economy-gdp-eu-rules

'MDMA and LSD were widely exploited by intelligence agencies in various ill and not so fated experiments.'

Exactly. They were tested for MK-Ultra by psychiatrists etc on military contracts and they were spread by the counterculture, pop groups and in Vietnam with the troops as the supply and productionwas increased and distributed.

No conspiracy though. It was overt.

LSD was proffered by anti psychiatrist RD Laing to several patients and workers, still legal then during the time that his group home Kingsley Hall was open. Supposedly to release their inner demons or buried childhood traumas, Laing studied with disciples of Leary and although his methods and philosophies are now seen as potentially dangerous by the medical establishment, back then, it was part of a greater social upheaval where the nature of mental illness, death, family and the medical system where being questioned and challenged.

"Woods feels unable to rest on his laurels. He tours the world for a consultancy he now runs, Hermes Forensic Solutions, counselling and speaking to banks on the dangers of laundering criminal money, and how to spot and stop it. "New York and London," says Woods, "have become the world's two biggest laundries of criminal and drug money, and offshore tax havens. Not the Cayman Islands, not the Isle of Man or Jersey. The big laundering is right through the City of London and Wall Street.

"After the Wachovia case, no one in the regulatory community has sat down with me and asked, 'What happened?' or 'What can we do to avoid this happening to other banks?' They are not interested. They are the same people who attack the whistleblowers and this is a position the [British] Financial Services Authority at least has adopted on legal advice: it has been advised that the confidentiality of banking and bankers takes primacy over the public information disclosure act. That is how the priorities work: secrecy first, public interest second.

"Meanwhile, the drug industry has two products: money and suffering. On one hand, you have massive profits and enrichment. On the other, you have massive suffering, misery and death. You cannot separate one from the other."

www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs

Could it become legalised misery where the money no longer needs to be laundered but enters GDP figures and is above board and where young people become addicted to legal drugs that they are milked to pay for over their entire lives as they become addicted?

"The U.S. psychedelic drug scene was kickstarted by spies and spooks, just as much as Timothy Leary and Jerry Garcia"

www.salon.com/2013/12/14/timothy_learys_liberation_and_the_cias_experiments_lsds_amazing_psychedelic_history/

There are conspiracy theories that Timothy Leary was a CIA agent.

Here is Timothy Leary crediting the CIA with the counterculture movement and helping with the rise in use of LSD

vimeo.com/22625334

The person that is promoted by teh media to push the case for decriminalisation and who has even been invitd into a Parliamentray Committe, together with his ripped jeans, is that "revolutionary", trendy, climate change campaigner, all-roind good egg who wants to save teh planet and decriminalise drugs - to take it out of teh hands of the criminals, we are told.

"It is not every day that a recovering heroin addict shares a stage with the Mayor of London to discuss drugs on BBC's Question Time.

But during last broadcast, Russell Brand sat beside Boris Johnson and spoke openly about his former addiction and his ideas for solving Britain's addiction problems.

The comedian, who called David Dimbleby “mate” and Boris Johnson “man” throughout the programme, showed his serious side when asked whether drug laws were working in the UK.

He said: “I don’t think drug laws are working because people take drugs all the time. People will take drugs because of social, psychological and emotional reasons.

“For me it’s not about the drug laws, it’s about treating people with addiction issues in a compassionate and empathetic way.”

He went on to disagree with fellow panelist Melanie Phillips, a Daily Mail columnist who said the Government should promote the view that “illegal drug use is harmful to the person and society”.

The pair clashed, but Brand described Phillips as "really lovely" on a personal level, in spite of their conflicting stances.

He said: “As a recovering drug addict myself, when I was using drugs I didn’t care if drugs were illegal.

“If I need drugs because I’m in pain inside, I’m taking drugs and I know this to be true of drug addicts all over our country.

“If you criminalise them and marginalise them, you place an industry in the hands of criminals and you make it difficult and shaming for them to get treatment. That is the wrong way to handle the situation.”

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/recovering-drug-addict-russell-brand-calls-for-compassion-not-drug-laws-on-bbc-question-time-8668070.html

And on the basis of this type of stuff, the modernisers want to change drug law and overturn how we have operated for decades, and make even heroin legal for millions.

'But many people won't be able to use drugs responsibly because some of them are highly addictive and they will suffer. We can't allow this or even encourage its use because our whole society has a duty of care to its citizens that trumps the freedoms of some people to use these drugs'

As PP have said - alcohol is addictive yet a very large majority of people manage to drink responsibly just have the odd pint/glass of wine occasionally a bit more when going out.
Most people I know who take illegal drugs aren't addicted and just do things occasionally when out (cocaine, mushrooms/acid, MDMA) or will use cannabis in the same way others use alcohol to unwind at the end of a long week.
The whole 'but drugs are eeevil and everyone will become addicted' thing is a complete nonsense. IMO those who are going to use them will whether it's legal or not and with regard to having the odd spliff it's crazy that you can be criminalised for that when you won't be for drinking a bottle of wine with your partner on a Friday night.

The medical and law authorities only interract with those whose drug habits have gone out of control.

It would be like deciding what the supermarkets could sell based upon the residents of a liver cancer ward.

Cut the hysteria.

The biggest risk through most of the illegal drugs is
(a) having to deal with criminals to get them
(b) wondering what has been added to them as trading standards cannot be enforced.

All those people who want them are getting them already.
The only thing that will change with decriminalisation will be the law enforcement side.

Actually a couple of other things will change too, but they will be advantages too.

Quality will be controlled by trading standards, like alcohol is. So nothing really nasty added, no crushed glass for instance.

Tax will be collected on sales, whether the taxation is as high as it is on tobacco, or about the same as on, say, cosmetics, it's more money going into the Treasury. Which could have been fairly helpful over the last 5 years.

No one having to go into unknown, potentially dangerous, situations, where you don't know if a guy is perhaps carrying a gun or is about to be invaded by guys carrying guns.

Lastly, adults making their own choices, like adults are supposed to do.

I can't make up my mind about legal v illegal, but according to an article I read, all illegal drugs are readily available from a site called Silk Road which cuts out going to a dealer and possibly facing dangerous situations.

no
The Silk Road was the wholesale market
no individuals shop there
and its been partly shut down - with little impact on street prices which implies a lot of meejah hype