Missing Malaysia Airlines MH370 - Thread 5

[KenAdams]

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

Thread 4

I should mention, TiramiLu was the one who mentioned the coordinates thing on the previous thread, but it got a bit buried. I didn't want to take her credit for posting it, iyswim!

post about the co-ordinates (the shockhorror coincidence is inaccurate)

Doctrine - oh, that's bad news re winding up a second days search with no discoveries. I am checking on this thread rather than the news too ;)

$350,000 is peanuts to what would have to be paid in compensation if survivors / families could prove that the airline was negligent in not have all appropriate systems on board though, surely? I guess it is like all insurance - you pay just in case you need it?

I too think the N/S co ordinates could be significant.
I am sure a pilot with hypoxia could lose sense of direction and mistake N and South very easily.

sorry, Garlic, being dopey - what do you mean?

"$350,000 is peanuts to what would have to be paid in compensation if survivors / families could prove that the airline was negligent in not have all appropriate systems on board though, surely? I guess it is like all insurance - you pay just in case you need it?"

It wouldn't be negligent unless the FAA et al had mandated such a system and it wasn't present. It also wouldn't have been negligent if it made no difference to the survival outcome (eg Air France was found quickly but there were no survivors of course) - if a plane had landed safely but survivors died of starvation or whatever then the lack of such system might be contributory negligence.

Garlic, I saw you post that earlier. I have no idea what that has to do with the fact that the coordinates are the same, except with n and s switched out. I fully admit I am thick, but what does the arc have to do with it?

Ah
thanks for clarifying that, Doctrine.

I posted a graphic last night, firstchoice. The Inmarsat arc goes nowhere near 116.58°E. That's the longitude for Beijing airport, but the furthest east the tracking arc goes is about 108°.

Bigger graphic here

If you look at 116.58°E on Marine Traffic, 116.58°E is just to the west of Albany, and only one ship is there.

Psammead, the arc marks the area where the satellite pings showed the plane to be last time it checked in. The line shows the furthest it could have flown, in any direction, on 7 hours' worth of fuel.

I think the consensus on the PPrune thread about the N/S coordinates was that pilots don't enter coordinates, as such. To fly to Beijing airport they would enter the preprogrammed airport code.

Therefore they would not enter it's position that way so could not have entered it's geographical opposite (S) coordinate IYSWIM.

Strange coincidence though, and they do say there are no coincidences....

Garlic yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean the plane wasn't heading for those co-ordinates, just that it didn't get there (or wasn't there -yet?- at the final satellite communication)

YY, Doctrine. Malaysian Air went bust a couple of years ago, and had to be bailed out. A company in special financial measures doesn't go round buying extras - well, not unless they're a bank in Britain.

Thanks, Downton. So, regardless of whether one thinks it's strangely significant, no longitude was ever programmed into the autopilot.

I don't know though, if technical failure could have disabled navigation or directional equipment (am really struggling for correct jargon as I have no technical knowledge) could the malfunction make the autopilot think it was flying north when, in fact, it was flying south?

ok i may be being thick but of course the same coordinates but in the opposite direction would take you out over that ocean - it's like turning 180 degrees - it takes you back where you came from. not a weird coincidence but maths surely?

the reality is that those coordinates are nowhere near where the ping came from anyway - sure tehy look close on a map but they're just not.

hang on it was N/S earlier - where did the E come from? sorry. fuddled.

It would be a miracle if they managed to locate any wreckage down that way any time soon. You cannot imagine how wild the waters off Antarctica can be if you haven't seen them with your own eyes. If anything is discovered, it will be by accident, I suspect.

The $10 subscription was discussed in either the Telegraph or Guardian as a confirmed figure for the subscription. It didn't indicate if that is per plane, per flight, per year etc. It could be extremely costly for airlines to have the service but RR would probably collect it as a matter of course.

sounds like there is no point holding our breath, then, maltesefalcon

This is just so sad and worrying - the families must be going through hell

Yes, it's ok for us, speculating on here
(in what is a genuine attempt to understand something that is tugging at all our heartstrings)

but the actual families -
I had to turn the news off last night as I couldn't watch that poor woman being dragged away screaming again.

I'd have had a nervous breakdown by now if I knew someone on that plane. I was a wreck when a good friend of mine was stuck at Moscow airport for a week because of the volcanic ash cloud - the not knowing how long he'd be stuck there and being powerless to help really got to me. What the families are going through must be that feeling times a million with the added guilt of hoping they find the plane crashed somewhere just for some resolution.

May I ask what is probably a silly question? And sorry if this has been asked before, I have RTFT, all of them, but don't recall it being covered.

These pings to the satellite which has been used to provide the arcs of last known position...

How do we know they're from MH370? Had the satellite received hundreds of pings per hour, each one accounted for except one and therefore it's believed to come from MH370?

If the plane pings hourly were there also unaccounted for pings at 7.11am, 6.11am etc?

Why would the pings from MH370 occur at 11 minutes past the hour rather than at, say, 41 minutes past as that is when takeoff happened? Or do they occur hourly from the time the engine is turned on initially, and would they ping if the plane were still grounded an hour after the engines were turned on?

Would the plane ping if it had landed somewhere prior to engine shut down?

Or, if the engines had failed mid-flight would the plane still ping if still airborne, or undamaged?

Sorry if these are stupid questions. I'm just trying to make sense of it all, the plane was initially heading north to Beijing, then west, then north again toward India but suddenly everything seems to be focused way south near Antarctica. I suspect we'll never know what happened, even if the plane is found.

I can't even begin to imagine what the families of the passengers must be going through.

I suppose if they don't find any wreckage, there would need to be a report which would compile all the different bits of evidence that we have not yet been party too - such as an extra info there has been from RR that was from the satellite, and any radar info which individual countries have not yet allowed as public knowledge. I assume with some negotiation (which takes time), they may allow release of information. I don't know who would do the report though. It sounded like in the Silk Air crash, the US did a report and there was also a local report, which disagreed with each other.

I just read on Norwegian news NRK that since 1948 there have been 86 missing airplanes, not counting this one.