Oscar Pistorius trial

[JillJ72]

Starting a new thread as as was pointed out on the other thread, it is not an appropriate place to "talk" and continue to "promote" a really poor excuse for a "joke".

Yesterday's post-mortem evidence was awful; if ever there's a way to get across just how unglamorous guns are, post-mortem evidence is a painfully honest way of doing so.

I listened to the trial live today. My main impression? That Darren Fresco consulted with legal experts to ensure his affidavit did not incriminate him, yet left room for questions that weren't explicitly answered. If he'd paid for that input from legal experts, they didn't sew it up nicely and tightly. I got the impression he was a bit of an unwilling witness really, and had problems remembering some things, yet was very insistent on others. Some good journo feeds on twitter that give different flavours and interpretations.

I'll be honest. I hope this was as OP said, an appalling mistake. But equally so many questions, the constant "whys". And so I am sitting on the fence, listening to argument and counter-argument, and waiting for the judge's final decision.

Never have been in a court of law before, are proceedings usually this long, slow, going round in circles, playing cat and mouse?

Crying understandable but crying, retching and wailing to the point court has to adjourn repeatedly is getting in the way of justice - this has to be controlled somehow.

He claims that he screamed like he had never screamed before and then heard a door slam and then fired. If he is innocent and Reeva was just by terrible coincidence in the toilet having a wee why didn't she react to his screaming? She would have cried out herself, yelling what's wrong or similar. She wouldn't have just slammed the bathroom door. This alone is enough to show he is lying in my opinion.

One of the things he said today makes me think that perhaps he is happy to take his punishment rather than wriggle out of it. I thought the shock tactic of her photo was a bit much. He has never said he didn't kill her. I just felt so sorry for Reeva, seeing her like that, although I understand her mother didn't object

I read a commentator saying that by saying he discharged his gun by accident, it can no longer be seen as putative self defence. So Gerrie Nel has scored a major point there.

I do wonder though, what all those that thought Barry Roux was tough, are thinking of him now.

The fan thing was interesting. Surely before stating that they were on you would check that the cord would reach? Or is Mr Nel just trying to trip OP up

He did sound more controlled today, it's really hard to read.

I'm still waiting till the end though, as my mind is swaying, I think one thing, then hear another thing swaying me the other way.

I also think, as some of us said some weeks ago, who would want to believe that poor Reeva's last moments were spent running away in terror.

I wish he'd stop arguing with the prosecutor. I don't know anything about legal systems but surely he wouldn't get away with that over here.

If he is telling the truth, which I still think he is, then it seems a waste of jail space and resources to lock him up, especially as he will no doubt continue to suffer inside or outside of jail with the weight of the guilt. Save the space for the rapists, pedophiles and other hideous criminals.

shopping I think the defence would say she didn't cry out so as not to alert the intruders to her.

^ I believe his story is plausible; I'm keeping an open mind for the judge's verdict, however I agree that some kind of sentence is required, now whether that is house arrest or some such thing, I don't know, but I do think a sentence is appropriate, and necessary.

What message does it send to the population if no sentence is given. It's OK to shoot at a closed door? It isn't, it shouldn't be.

Someone who shoots through a door to kill, whether he knew it was Reeva or not, is a hideous criminal. A murderer, who deserves to be locked up with other hideous criminals.

But bonnie ... he could well be a hideous criminal himself couldn't he?

OPs series of events don't quite add up. He heard the toilet door close. Presumed an intruder got his gun and went and fired it. She had been to the toilet recently but there was no evidence of this in the toilet when she was shot. He would have heard the toilet flush esp as he claims he didn't really go out onto the balcony. If he could here the bathroom window close the bathroom door shut and the lock latch. He'd have heard the toilet flush.

He's wouldn't have know immediately after that she had an empty bladder hence he didn't risk including the toilet flushing in his statement.

I just don't buy his series of events

And people say that the British court system is an adversarial game .

Obviously, we're not alone and I am aware there is no jury in the South African court, just a judge, who seemed at the end of her tether yesterday.

I find Pistorious's behaviour distasteful, but whether he intended to kill Reeva or not, he did kill her.

I've no idea how I'd behave if I was in his shoes, but it appears that he fired intending to kill or seriously injure someone behind that toilet door.

I also think that someone can be an arsehole and not be a murderer.

But I really hate his tearfulness and histrionics. That might be just me. I imagine I'd go completely the other way in his shoes and be portrayed as a cold murdering bitch.

But bonnie you could argue that the person who committed the crime has suffered enough through their actions in
a number if scenarios.

If he knew Reeva was in the toilet then yes of course, he's a hideous criminal. But I believe that he really did think there was an intruder and he was protecting the two of them. If someone threatened me and my DDs I would do everything I possibly could to protect them. Yes ok he wasn't directly threatened but the fear must have taken over.

Do you think he knew the bullets would go straight through the door and injure the person beyond or were they just meant as a warning? Has this been ruled out? Wouldn't you only know that if you've shot through a door before?

So many people on trial don't show any real emotion or regret or remorse for what they have done though. I think the thing that worries me is the thought of an innocent person going into a SA jail. Yes I know he killed her, but if he truly believed he was protecting the two of them then it seems so tragic to me that he would have to go to jail when he wouldn't actually be a threat to anyone else. There must be some other punishment that doesn't involve jail but still sets an example to others.

These bullets are designed only to ecpand when they hit a moist target. He knew this when he bought extra special, extra lethal bullets.

I am keeping an open mind on whether he deliberately killed Reeva, or killed her whilst deliberately trying to kill/maim someone else.

But even though I've only caught very short parts of the live broadcasts, the crying is getting a bit distasteful. I think it IS genuine, but is the tears of a frustrated trapped man, whose life as he knew it is over for ever because of what happened during about 10 seconds. He must know he is facing jail either way, and is scared of that, and can't pull himself together in the present because he is so desperate to go back in time and change what happened. As much for his own sake - to get his life back as he knew it - as for Reeva's sake.

Whatever the outcome, its a terrible tragedy that a young woman is dead and a young man's life is ruined.

I think if I were to ever use a gun for the purpose of protection in my house, I'd make damn sure it wasn't one of my loved ones before I fired.

Bonnie what about a shorter sentence? Still jail, but still time for a life afterwards?

How can we ever speculate what sort of prison sentence he should have - longer or shorter - if he knew what he was doing, he deserves a very long one for what he put her and her family through.

The one thing I can't get past is this. If I hear a noise (and this has happened), the first thing I (and most people do) is say "did you hear that?" to your OH/bed partner/girlfriend/boyfriend. You don't go out on your own brandishing a gun, without speaking to your bed partner. Whatever the verdict is, I can't get pas this fact.

Some people get very emotional/tearful when stressed. I know I'm one of them. It's not always possible to control that emotion so its not really a question of pulling yourself together.

I live with a stoic (who has never cried) who is not very sympathetic to me when I'm emotional.

We are all different and its difficult to understand people who don't behave like us.

I'm watching some of the bits I missed and I just find him to be slightly cocky today wrt his long testimony on how the crime scene had been contaminated. Even Nel said that it was well rehearsed.

He should stick to answering the questions put to him, the rest is what his defence is employed for.

Seen in a tweet that Pistorius would not look at Nel during any of his testimony, even when being asked/answering a question. It's things like that I find disrespectful.

Have been watching this and am struck by how sorry he is for himself.
The remorse he has expressed has really only been on the effect this has had on him - no word of the life that Reeva has lost, what she may have achieved etc.

He sounds really petulant and angry when challenged by Nel to accept the responsibility - he says he does, but I really don't think he has at all.

He refused to admit Intent in that he got the gun, he took the safety off, he went to where he thought the intruders were, he raised the gun, he aimed at the door, he fired. FOUR times.

All that was an "accident". He even said Accidental Discharge, if you please.

Barry Roux needs to get him to stop this posturing as he looks even more guilty of arrogance and recklessness.

He cannot avoid the consequences of his actions - whether Reeva was his intended victim or not, he IS guilty of, at the very very least, Culpable Homicide IMHO.

Yes, its the fact that he armed himself then went looking.

Why not get somewhere safe until the police/security arrived.

Completely agree BMW

He couldn't answer the simple question put to him after he said he accidentally discharged, but then said he shot at the intruder... That's not an accident is it?!