Oscar Pistorius trial

[JillJ72]

Starting a new thread as as was pointed out on the other thread, it is not an appropriate place to "talk" and continue to "promote" a really poor excuse for a "joke".

Yesterday's post-mortem evidence was awful; if ever there's a way to get across just how unglamorous guns are, post-mortem evidence is a painfully honest way of doing so.

I listened to the trial live today. My main impression? That Darren Fresco consulted with legal experts to ensure his affidavit did not incriminate him, yet left room for questions that weren't explicitly answered. If he'd paid for that input from legal experts, they didn't sew it up nicely and tightly. I got the impression he was a bit of an unwilling witness really, and had problems remembering some things, yet was very insistent on others. Some good journo feeds on twitter that give different flavours and interpretations.

I'll be honest. I hope this was as OP said, an appalling mistake. But equally so many questions, the constant "whys". And so I am sitting on the fence, listening to argument and counter-argument, and waiting for the judge's final decision.

Never have been in a court of law before, are proceedings usually this long, slow, going round in circles, playing cat and mouse?

I find Reeva's Mother's quiet and dignified control far more compelling than the Pistorius histrionics. This man is on trial for taking a life, yet is constantly being petted, comforted and reassured by his keening family. It's all about them and their suffering. Reeva's family will never hold her again.

I did notice that during his constant weeping, he was adding things into his testimony that Roux can refer back to and highlight. You know, particular details that weren't necessary to answer the question, but that help his case.

It is definitely well rehearsed, as these things usually are. I don't have much sympathy for him.

I agree that the language between them for quite immature & yes, there doesn't seem to have been a passionate spark. Perhaps she was modest herself, she did refer to herself as a 'lady' & comes over as quite classy. ..

The photo shown today, her newly highlighted hair & a revealing vest, he said she looked amaze balls!? Surely should have been 'hot' or sexy as hell!

Are there still missing I pads or phones? The ones he 'forgot' the passwords for??

howaboutno. Can you remember any examples of that? I was listening at work and had a few interruptions do didn't hear everything.

There was the bit about him falling asleep and asking her to shut the balcony. And i wondered too if the reference to him falling asleep first would be used to account for the eating later. I still felt Barry Roux held back and I know Gerrie Nel won't

Yes, Mary 21....the height of passion - "close the windows dear and bring in the fans".....nothing about even starting to get intimate that night, and maybe OP saying that he was too tired or Reeva was too tired, or anything....

It doesn't necessarily seem odd to me, that there was no intimacy. But I have no idea, if you are 3 months or so into a relationship, do you have sex most nights? Genuine question, I can't remember.

Also, another question, though not necessarily relevant, can anyone explain to me why you would have fans outside on your balcony?

Not odd that there was no intimacy in light of his comment that they'd both had challenging days (or something to that effect).

Re the lack of passion evident in the texts...I wondered whether them being committed Christians may have been the reason (or so I believe).

And on another note - noone seems to have noted what I thought was a rather exceptional stumble in his testimony, whether original or not...he said he was screaming and shouting as he entered the passageway to the bathroom where he then fired the shots. If Reeva was indeed in there, going to the toilet, as per his version of events, she would almost certainly have COME OUT in alarm at his panic!! I don't get why this hasn't been leapt upon?? Or am I being a dunce again?!

If Reeva was indeed in there, going to the toilet, as per his version of events, she would almost certainly have COME OUT in alarm at his panic!! I don't get why this hasn't been leapt upon??

Yes you're right!

I think neighours reported a woman screaming before the shots but he said it was himself screaming. If that was the case why didn't she come out the bathroom!?

Defence can argue that having heard his shouts, she would have been frightened about there being an intruder, and so staying locked in the toilet would be the safest place, not realising that OP thought she was the intruder.

A fan would work outside a bit too wouldn't it, if they were sitting on the balcony?

Maybe reeva stayed in the bathroom when he shouted for safety reasons as she thought there must be a burglar out there?

Right, yes of course, hadn't considered that. You lot are very good at this detective work.

3 months in, we were at it like rabbits! Surely more so, given they were apart with work etc a lot.

It rankled me slightly today, when he took his prosthetics off & as has been said, was made to look vulnerable etc... he has made a career out of racing as an able bodied man, wanting to be treated equally, brought up in his own words to mot feel sorry for himself etc, so it doesn't sit well with me.

Then again, he does have a pretty major disability

She might well not come out of the loo if she realised why he was panicking and thought there was a burglar - I certainly wouldn't! Apparently she and her mother had been through such an event in the past. One thing worth pointing out is that she had indeed emptied her bladder (and not when she was shot incidentally) so she must have been to the loo at some point in the last hour or two.

I find the Pistorius family emotion totally normal and to be expected. It;s the lack of much emotion from Mrs Steenkamp that I find strange. Equally I know that it could just mean she is numb and that not everyone is a cry baby like me.

Yes the defence may argue that, but it doesn't make sense if he is shouting at the bathroom - (where she was), and she doesn't shout back or come out to alert him that she's actually in there!

We still have to establish if it was a woman screaming before the shots. Seem to think at the pre-trial he intimated that he screamed like a woman.

I notice in court that he doesn't cry and sob like a woman. He sounds like a man.

I've always found it hard to not believe the neighbour saying it was a man and a woman screaming.

I suppose there isn't a right way for June Steenkamp to grieve. Maybe she has cried so much over the last year that it has left her numb or something

Animation, I think he means it was him screaming after he shot Reeva. I know everyone laughs at that but I recently read Mrs Stipp's testimony for the first time. She said she woke up with a coughing fit, heard 3 shots, a woman screaming for around 10 minutes then 3 more shots. If the first 3 were the real shots and the last 3 were Oscar with the bat, it could be him screeching.

The trouble is you can make the testimony fit whatever you believe and witnesses are notoriously unreliable anyway. Look at the security guard who swore blind he'd phoned OP first but the phone records show he didn't. He wasn't deliberately lying, just confused by the drama and trauma of the night.

Right - so the screams were not heard by the neighbour before the shots.

The other thing that doesn't make sense, he says - "I whispered to Reeva to get down and phone the police". So why didn't she do that - why go to the bathroom instead, and how did she get passed him?

But surely that's him thinking he whispered to Reeva to get down and call the police whereas actually she was already in the bathroom and the bed was empty - he just didn't realise that...

Just noticed that it was reported that he said this in court today - something that he didn't mention in the affidavit -

"He admitted to having been "sensitive" and "insecure" after he saw his new love chatting to an unknown man at a friend's engagement.

He explained how she apparently ignored him even "after making my presence known" and failed to introduce her to the gentleman - this upset him and he left.

However, he said any argument they had was resolved shortly afterwards."

animation I'm guessing that will lead nicely into the questioning about her being scared of him, and him making a scene at a party... all part of the seed sowing, to counter the prosecution.

This is why I can't believe the emotions, when he seems so switched on, covering his own arse when being questioned. Roux barely says a thing, just lets Oscar ramble on, sowing seeds & countering the prosecution.

It's all very clever. He's also stated he was 'besotted' with her, but that he was more into her, than she was into him... Sorry? Again, sowing some pretty big seeds.

Gahh wintry I can't remember... It just occurred to me as he was testifying, I thought "convenient of you to slip that in" iyswim. Happened a few times.

Wonder if Nel will get his turn tomorrow?

I still don't understand how, if he knew she was awake, he didn't assume it might be her in the toilet, and why he didn't question that she didn't respond? It's strange that, when you have someone staying over, and this is pretty much a normal thing that you're used to, that you hear a noise and immediately think it's an intruder rather than "hold on, that's coming from the toilet, is it Reeva? Where's Reeva?" That's a really, really big hole in his evidence for me. I will be interested to hear what he says because that is the part I cannot get over, that he wasn't concerned that she didn't respond when he 'alerted' her

However, having heard his speaking voice... He's softer spoken than I would have expected. He also stated today "I've never screamed or cried like that before in my life" thus... reinforcing the defence stating there was no screams by anyone except Oscar.

I can't help thinking of Ned Flanders, in The Simpson's, when he buries the dead plant

Animation, well that was Mrs Stipp but other neighbours have different testimony. Apparently the defence will produce one close neighbour who is obviously giving testimony in favour of Oscar. I think the "witnesses" will cancel each other out, after all none of them were actually in the house. Apparently Dr and Mrs Stipp disagree as to whether or not the toilet light was on in Oscar's house despite standing together on the same balcony looking across when they heard the noise. Dr Stipp also agreed one set of bangs could possibly have been a cricket bat, not shots.

One things for sure, it's a terrible mess.

Oh, and sorry for multiple posts!! I also picked up today, on him explaining in great detail he had a shoulder injury and was sleeping on the other side of the bed from normal, as he couldn't lie on the injured side

Again, one in the bag for the defence, when Nel asks how the hell he failed to notice Reeva was not in the bed.