Oscar Pistorius trial

[JillJ72]

Starting a new thread as as was pointed out on the other thread, it is not an appropriate place to "talk" and continue to "promote" a really poor excuse for a "joke".

Yesterday's post-mortem evidence was awful; if ever there's a way to get across just how unglamorous guns are, post-mortem evidence is a painfully honest way of doing so.

I listened to the trial live today. My main impression? That Darren Fresco consulted with legal experts to ensure his affidavit did not incriminate him, yet left room for questions that weren't explicitly answered. If he'd paid for that input from legal experts, they didn't sew it up nicely and tightly. I got the impression he was a bit of an unwilling witness really, and had problems remembering some things, yet was very insistent on others. Some good journo feeds on twitter that give different flavours and interpretations.

I'll be honest. I hope this was as OP said, an appalling mistake. But equally so many questions, the constant "whys". And so I am sitting on the fence, listening to argument and counter-argument, and waiting for the judge's final decision.

Never have been in a court of law before, are proceedings usually this long, slow, going round in circles, playing cat and mouse?

HowAboutNo I think that's an interesting point about the apology. I think it would have seemed remiss if he didn't apologise at the start of his testimony but it would have been more considerate to send a written personal apology to Reeva's family beforehand. Although I could also see how that would be a very difficult letter to write.

I think his personal history was relevant today because ultimately it comes down to his state of mind whether he was more likely to be shooting at an intruder or at a girlfriend with whom he'd argued.

I did find myself wondering if his personality changed after his boat accident for physical reasons, as well as emotional ones. Certain injuries can make you more aggressive and less reflective.

I wonder if the "glamour" of owning a gun and using it on the firing range was divorced from the reality of owning a gun and firing it at a real, living person.

i read an article recently that showed one of his dogs was a rescue dog, and very very timid still; had been locked in a tiny room and had a broken back when he took it in so despite care was still a nervous dog. not a guard dog by any stretch

I watched on YouTube, and remarked to DH that he couldn't have done it... because he's kind to sick puppies and believes in God...

And what 'religious dance involving scarves' was he talking about!?

... He did do it. It's the circumstances that are to be determined.

I just think the defence team decided they would keep him away from Nel for today, because he so clearly went to pieces watching Nel cross-examine, so they just kept him talking until they could reasonably ask for an adjournment.

Nel was ferocious today. But ultimately, that is his job. It won't be comfortable listening to him cross examine OP but that is how they pursue justice so I think OP just has to deal with it.

Certainly didn't stop Barry Roux from tearing the state witnesses to shreds.

I certainly haven't seen Roux at anywhere near the level of aggression shown by Gerrie Nel today. Even badgering the state witnesses, he was never impolite.

One of the journalists tweeted that it seemed personal this morning and as previously posted Nel and Botha have history in court

I'm sorry I'm a complete newbie to this thread but where do you actually watch all this live?

Agree gosh…

Was a bit at the judge saying "well he does look tired, and sounds exhausted..."

He's a grown man, on trial for murder! Not a bloody toddler.

I think we need to try and be objective as we watch the evidence unfold. Yes we are being induced to feel sorry for him but I think we should resist falling into that sentiment as to do so risks missing what is to be revealed. And I certainly hope the prosecution do a thorough job to get to the truth.

Not impressed today with the trial being delayed because Pistorius was tired. This is not about him and his sensibilities.

Anon. Lots of channels stream it live. I watch/listen on my phone

Google ENCA oscar trial live, think the Telegraph does it too. Or you can watch in Sky

He has been acting rather like a toddler though hasn't he? This whole crying, throwing up, being comforted by his sister... The whole thing is rather bizarre when you think he is an adult who has shot someone dead.

Showing my age I watched the OJ trial years ago. I don't remember him sobbing or being excused for being too tired.
Pistorius is displaying child like behaviour and everyone seems to be pandering to it. Very odd.

So again where are you all watching this?

So crossposting re watching live. Thanks for the info.

I catch up on sabcdigitalnews on YouTube.

I also thought his behaviour has been very child like - and most certainly all about his pain and fear.

Firstly I want to say that it's nice to find somewhere this can be discussed in a civilised manner. One or two places I've looked at, people seem to get very offensive towards anyone who doesn't think he is a monster and also some seem to revel in what could await him if he goes to prison. I have no idea if he shot Reeva in a rage or by accident (and even less idea what the verdict will be) but I found his testimony painful and upsetting to watch and I'm not sure I can watch it tomorrow. I understand the feeling that it shouldn't be delayed because he is "tired" but they seem to finish about 3.00pm our time anyway. Do all courts act like this, with tea breaks as well as lunch and an early finish? I've never been to court so have no idea. Or is it just in SA?

Anonacfr, I too remember the OJ trial and no he didn't sob at all. IHe was very arrogant and I remember him smirking at the not guilty verdict. Of course OJ was a notorious wife beater, Nicole had photos of hersel, taken after being beaten, locked away in a bank vault and even told people "if I'm found dead OJ will have done it". With this case, despite all the gossip and rumour about OP being a jealous control freak and hot tempered, the prosecution didn't produce one person to say "he is violent/aggressive and I was scared of him" and give examples, not even Sam Taylor who painted a negative picture. It will be interesting to see if the defence produces any ex girlfriends to support him.

the prosecution didn't produce one person to say "he is violent/aggressive and I was scared of him"

There were some texts sent to Pistorious by Reeva such as this one saying, "I'm scared of you sometimes and how you snap at me and how you will react to me"

I don't see the connection between this trial and the OJ Simpson one at all, and if have seen it mentioned a couple of times. I must be stupid, but I'm not getting how now is at all relevant to the other.

Hello Louise. Yes this is, by and large, a good place to have an open debate about the trial and the evidence discussed in court.

Comparisons to the OJ Simpson case are invalid, in my opinion. Different crime, different legal case, different legal system, different country. Then there is the issue of race, which was central to OJ Simpson's trial and subsequent acquittal.

As for OP's behaviour, I have no idea what the appropriate behaviour would be in his situation, so I'd refrain from judging it, or assigning any value to it as an indication of guilt or innocence. Is there such a thing as an unacceptable level of distress when on trial for murder?

Was the judge lenient on him today? Well, she needs to hear his testimony, it is central to the case. It's in her interests for the testimony to be as coherent as possible.

I know there are plenty of people in internet land who would happily slam down the gavel on day one and throw away the key, but in reality I imagine it's a heavy responsibility.

Like many people I'm sure, I change my mind regarding what I think. Mainly because I think neither story is particularly obvious as a natural chain of events.

I can't imagine how totally fucking insane and angry you'd have to be to fire several times at your girlfriend through a locked door because you were having an argument. Obviously all that says is that I can't imagine it. But still, I really cannot comprehend that level of insanity.

But then I think of the defence's case. And I don't think it sounds that plausible either.

But we haven't heard the defence case yet. Bail application and opening plea could only give the flavour.

The prosecution case changed between bail and trial, in particular with regard to prosthetics on and off

I'll wait and see what the defence case is before deciding.

Then I'll have to try and remember everything I've heard. - which with my elderly memory won't be easy.

Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't comparing the trials per se I was mentioned the OJ trial because it's the only televised murder trial I have ever seen.
I agree that the cases are different- I just find Pistorius over emotion rather bizarre- also the fact that he can be hugged and touched by loved ones in court rather odd.

I am interested to hear the defence case. Perhaps it will make sense.

I do feel very strongly that he should serve time for the crime though, as even though it may be ruled manslaughter (or the equiv), it was still a really reckless thing to do. I'm not out for blood or anything, I just think there's a big issue with guns and domestic violence in SA, and a line needs to be drawn. You can protect yourself, but it doesn't remove your responsibility automatically just because you've got a paranoid state of mind, etc.