Mark Duggan- Shooting was lawful

[Whitershadeofpale]

here

sallyingforth

dugganinquest.independant.gov.uk

hopefully I have typed that link properly.

so, no not from pub gossip or Facebook

Invisible
You should be very grateful that you do not have to make instant life-or-death decisions like these officers, knowing that you will be held up to legal process and public ridicule if you get it wrong.

No they shot to kill but they didn't die.
I'm firmly on the side of the victim and their families.
Madame your spot on, no peace no justice for the many families of murder victims now whose killers are never found. One less gun on the streets. One less risk.

madamecastafiore

'no justice no peace' means that when there is no justice, those with an interest will not let it be brushed under the carpet but will continue to push for adequate justice.

it doesn't mean they are trying to incite riots.

Really can't understand those saying "live by the sword" etc
I can understand it if he was gunned down by a rival gang and I can understand people having no sympathy.

But this is not about him and if he was good/bad, it's about what standards you hold the police to when they kill someone.

I can also understand those saying that given the circumstances they think the actions were reasonable.
But to just discard the standard to which you hold government law enforcement to because he was a wrong un is baffling to me.

the police did not have to read out the statement right outside the court. of course people were going to be angry.

The police would have been dammed if they did, dammed if they didn't. And given the verdict, why shouldn't they? People should have allowed him to speak just as the family were able to.

Exactly mayorquimby.

but it would seem that some people think British justice only applies to those they deem worthy.

The verdict said it all.

The rest was just throwing stones at a wasps nest.

mayorquimby
You are absolutely right. I have no sympathy with the 'die by the sword' brigade. The fact that Duggan was known to have a gun did not mean he should be shot down in cold blood.
That is why there had to be a full inquest before a jury, to establish the facts. The jury decided this was not the case - he was killed lawfully.

Unfortunately there are those who will not accept any decision that does not match their own.

And those who don't accept it will probably complain all night. I'm off to bed.

My sympathy with the family died somewhat when I saw their bizarre behaviour afterwards.

Will we ever know who the person was in the hooded anorak tied so tight to hide his face???

And yes I am hoiking my judgy pants up high and tight on what I saw on the news tonight.

British justice has applied. The killing was found lawful by a jury. If that's not British justice I don't know what is.

im talking about those who think that it is ok to execute a man who was at that point in time innocent. not tried and convicted. that isn't British justice is it?

I love this country. People are so willing to believe the best of their "superiors", even twisting themselves up to instantly believe "point B" when "point A" doesn't even make sense. Anything to confirm previously held prejudices which due to common decency (and law) they cannot so flagrantly proclaim. I just rest my head at night time, knowing that even if "others" didn't exist over here, the same damn superiors could manipulate the people. As long as it fit their narrow, forelock tugging narrative. R.I.P, Mr Duggan.

Here here Stooshe , there are so many discrepancies with this whole affair, I actually worry for any young person, who may look or act a certain way. How did a gun weighing 1kg end up so far away from the body? Must have been a shotputter. But remember the people who so readily believe the official line are the same type that believed the lies about Hillsborough, Plebgate etc. At the end of the day a human was killed RIP.

There have been people convicted in this country for having key fob guns capable of firing bullets. Those guns don't look like guns they look like key fobs.
A gun doesn't always look like a gun. Seeing a phone or something shiny and rectangular shaped in somebody's hand when you stop them believing that they are carrying a gun wouldn't necessarily be reassuring.

Who was Mark Duggan
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25363828

A fine upstanding member of the community with a stable and loving home life - NOT

Point of detail: men's shotput is 7.3 kgs (for Olympics) and thrown in a specified style. 1kg is below the weight 12yr olds would throw.

Is hyperbole going to help?

10 jurors found that Mark Duggan was lawfully killed, 2 decided an open verdict. Not one of them returned the idea he was unlawfully killed or innocent. A bit telling.

Does anyone know why Mark Duggan had a gun in the first place and what he was going to do with it?

There was a jury and they reached a majority verdict. They would have heard far more of the details of what happened than anyone else on this thread.

And as an aside - there wasn't much formally on Huntley's record either but it's a great shame the police didn't managed to kill him before he killed innocents although I doubt Duggan rubbed shoulders with many innocents.

You can not kill someone because of what they have done in the past. It would be down to the CPS to try and obtain a conviction have him put in prison.

I totally agree with you Stooshe

It took people 7 pages to discuss this, over the course of 14 hours. The officers in the situation had seconds to make a decision, based on what little information they had.

It's always nice and lovely for the general public to hash over the details from the court case and say they should have done this or that. But the police don't have that luxury. They are NOT thinking "oh he's a piece of shit, I'll shoot him and save us the money of a court case". But if they make the wrong decision, other lives could be at risk. No matter what they do, people will complain. So they have to make a decision - THATFAST. And then live with it.

Do you not think that if you were on that jury you'd worry about police officers who generally do a good job and are on the 'right side' having their career destroyed and possibly going to prison? All because a scumbag is dead, someone who would have potentially (probably?) go on to kill others?

I thinking was the wrong verdict but I'm not naive enough to say that the decision wouldn't have been anywhere near as easy if I'd been in the jury and been responsible for reaching a verdict knowing what the ramifications would be.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1038600/Pictured-The-terrifying-4-inch-key-fob-gun-used-shoot-clubber-row-girls.html

You will find an article on the link about somebody being shot using a key fob gun. Doesn't like a gun does it? Anybody else think that seeing a phone/ rectangular shiny object in somebody's hand who you suspect to be armed wouldn't be reassuring that they don't have a gun.