should higher income working parents get child care tax relief

[zippitippitoes]

..or would that mean the benefit would be spread so thinly that low income families would suffer?

If granny or sis wants to look after the kids then should they be able to be paid through government subsidy? Without formally becoming registered childminders.

\link{http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,17129-2233371,00.html\ david cameron on tax breaks for higher earners on childcare}

I think there are more problems with the voucher system. Why do we have to take a salaary sacrifice and have our pension contributions and pay raises suffer in order to get tax relief for childcare. Why can't the IR just give me a tax break on £50/week rather than having me depend on my company's participation and all the extra red tape that come with that. Wouldn't that be easier and more efficient for everyone?

once upon a time there was a married woman's allowance wasn't there also dependant child allowance at one time too?

I think the problem with tax breaks for unregistered childcare is that it would be abused widely. Someone could easily say that grandma is being paid X to look after their child when in reality that is not the case. Safeguards would have to be in place to ensure that did not happen. Also, registered childminders are trained and I would not like to see them or the service they provide demeaned. I would like it to be compulsory for all companies to offer the childcare voucher. Both DH and I claim them and it has made a huge difference to our finances, particularly as we were paying £900 per month for our twin boys to attend nursery for 3 days a week. We are saving nearly £2000 per year because of the vouchers so thanks Gordon!

Uwila, as an aside, the NHS in this country is superb. It teats millions of people every year and to expect an organisation that size not to have problems or flaws is naive. I pray that we never end up with a system like the USA. I wish people would remember that the NHS is great value for money and would stop denigrating it. Yes it has problems but don't use that as an excuse to condemn the whole thing.

I think the difficult thing is that the cost of good childcare is always going to be very high. I don't think there is an untapped supply of grannies available to provide cheap childcare. Presumably the mothers that the government wants to get working are the ones stuck in the poverty trap. If the government reduces tax revenues from higher income mothers, presumably they still need to maintain the same tax income, and they are just going to have to recoup it somewhere else. I think its just window dressing.

"to expect an organisation that size not to have problems or flaws is naive"

Exactly. That is precisely why I don't want all childcare run by the same government who runs the NHS. And, the service most people get is pretty mediocre.

I am very opposed to the concept of registered nannies. I like the registration for childminders. I think it works well in their case. But, since I have to take on being an employer and all the added expenses, I am adamately opposed to someone else dictating who I can hire, what they can teach my children, etc. If I want someone else to make those decision I'll use a nursery or a childminder.

But, they will recover it because they are only giving this break to people who go to work. And you don't have to be anywhere near the pverty line to take home less money than childcare will cost you.

In fact, does anyone know what gross income will equate to £21 net (which is the cost of nursery for two little ones in London)?

Uwila, to say that something should be understood as a 'public good' is NOT to say that it should be state-administered. It means that it should be recognised as being indirectly of benefit to all in the society, not just valuable for the people who directly make use of the service (or whatever it is).

So in this instance, it means that it's good for all of us if the children of our society, on whom our future collective well-being depends, can have good quality childcare. How that is organised is a completely separate matter.

Quite right, Pamina3, it is time the government acknowledges the real cost of childcare.

I didn't think that the £58K limit was actually related to childcare allowances. I thought that was just for tax credits which are just payments to the family regardless of childcare commitments. Am I wrong?

The £58k limit is the upper limit for those claiming tax credits. Anyone can claim nursery vouchers regardless of income and providing your company has registered for the scheme. Also, as well as nursery vouchers, the govt does pay for 5 sessions for each child age 3 and over at nursery and this will definitely help us when the twins turn 3yo next year.

In all of this, we should remember that people who work in childcare are poorly compared to most of us who bemoan the high cost of childcare and I certainly would not want those who look after my boys to be paid less just so the fees could be lower. Ultimately, I choose to work and so, I have to pay the fees.

the current system sucks. We get no childcare help at all despite paying £500 a month in childcare (sometimes more), because I am a student nurse I am not officially employed by anyone, so even though I get a bursary and work 37.5 hours a week on placement and approx 25-30 in college I dont 'work'

My childcare costs are £1700 per month. As I'm not a permanent resident in Australia I pay the full amount.

Conversely, although paying full tax/NI in both Holland and the UK, I mysteriously didn't qualify for any maternity pay either.

I have no family to help out and have no choice.

I know that the whole overseas thing is off topic, but it annoys me that I pay tax on the whole of my income and get no tax relief or childcare benefit despite my contribution to the economy.

I think it is bonkers that people who earn a LOT of money get child support (or whatever it's called) and childcare vouchers. They should be targeting the money to the people who need it most.

The trouble is CD, the government's definition of a lot is not a lot. You don't have to make very much money to not qualify for any help. And then people start to question why they are bothering to work when they'd be better off if they didn't.

Higher earners can get some tax relief if they are piad in childcare vouchers, up to £243 per month per parent, paid before tax, not all the cheldcare, but saves £800+ a year in tax if basic rate payer (so £1600+ if both parents do it) and a lot more if you pay high rate tax

But there is no threshold for childcare vouchers. Anyone can use them and if you are both top rate tax payers you save £2400 a year or something like that

Why bonkers CD? We have a reasonably high income, although we just still qualify for tax credits, but do not see why I should miss out on tax relief options like childcare vouchersa

And why does a family on £200k a year get child benefit?? Maaaad I tell you

Then you don't have the sort of high income I am talking about melrose!