Schoolgirls banned from wearing purity rings.

[spidermama]

I'd be very interested in opinions on this story which I'll summarise ....

A group of schoolgirls are threatening legal action against their school as they're being told they're not allowed to wear their rings because they don't allow jewellery as part of school uniform. (These are rings worn by teenagers, usually Christians, which symbolise their religeous belief in chastity before marriage.)

The girls at a school in Horsham have been told to take them off or they'll have to sit their GCSE's on their own.

They say it's a breach of their human rights.

Remember Shabina Begum? The 17-year-old Muslim, who was excluded from School in Luton for wearing a jilbab in contravention of uniform regulations. She took the school to the High Court two years ago, claiming that the staff had contravened her right to manifest her religion. Judges at the House of Lords eventually found in favour of the school earlier this year after two appeals.

sorry, can't spell today, haven't been at the gin, honest

Personally, I wish we had a society where school and religion were entirely separate

spidermama - I am rather glib about religeon of any kind - it causes too much death, war and hardship, I am completely agnostic, and believe in live and let live - but please do not ram religeon down my throat or flaunt it thinking it makes you a better person than me! (I am not saying this to you directly so don't take offence) the school says no rings and they need to learn to respect the school rules

Personally, I would happily allow girls and boys to wear plain rings in any school I ran - I'd rather they wore them because they liked the design rather than to advertise thier virginity.

Actually I'd say kids should be allowed some jewellery at school, within reason. They're school children not nuns ffs! The wearing of rings won't get in the way of a decent education.

However, I think if special dispensation is given e on religious grounds then it should be made for all religions be they muslim, christian, Taoist or whatever. In the end it would amount to a free for all instead of just the priviliged few, like Shabina Begum, being allowed to write their own rule book.

If people are allowed to wear rings on religious grounds, then they should be allowed to wear them on political or non-religious grounds.

I don't see why religion should have priority over any other belief system.

[militant secular icon]

Exactly, Caligula, that is why the ban (if there is one) needs to apply to everyone.

Spidermama, Shabina Begum didn't write her own rules, the Lords ruled in favour of the school and Lord Bingham said that she had been excluded from school due to her "unwillingness to comply with a rule to which the school was entitled to adhere".

I totally agree caligula.

The Lords ruled in her favour Edie. According to \link{http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/4310545.stm\this}.

that is the court of appeal decision, not the House of Lords'.

\link{http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200506/ldjudgmt/jd060322/begum-1.htm\if you've got nowt else to do this afternoon}

An interesting side question is what is a legitimate faith ?
Do you only get rights if you belong to a big gang ?

Girls who wear purity rings are a small set, whereas there are of course a lot more Moslem girls.

Some religions/cultures require men to carry knives at all times, is this next ?

Some religions require women to wear wigs, should this be allowed ?

But the harder question is who decides ?

If just one person believes that they should wear a strange piece of clothing because their personal faith demands it, should they not have rights because they are a small minority ?

What if it were 2, or 3 , or 50, where does it become a valid item of faith ?

As a Christian, I would advise those girls to find a different way of expressing their pledge in school, or else wearing the rings outside school. There is no need for them to cause trouble by trying to force the school to exempt them from the jewelry rule, as this sends out the wrong message. I'm sure their friends will know their views on premarital sex anyway. This is entirely different to not being able to express yourself because it is not the 'party line'. If there is an element of this, I am saddened and angry. I would have thought that in a country with a high teenage pregnancy rate, where chlamydia, gonorrhoea and syphillis (it's back!) are on the rise, and where there is overwhelming peer pressure to be sexually experienced, schools should not be objecting to people who take a different line from the usual 'do as you please but use a condom'. Condoms often fail in preventing pregnancy and STDs, especially when used by teenagers. Although it's much mocked (and it's a lot easier when associated with mawkish Americanisms, isn't it?) it's true that the safest sex is one partner for life. Emotionally, too. Discuss (?)

Oh, meant to add that by being so open about it, maybe they open up the possibility that sex isn't obligatory with every relationship; some kind of positive peer pressure for sexual liberation.

Put ring on chain. Wear around neck. Under collar of shirt. Just like we less holy types used to do with our 'engagement rings' when we were 16! Job's a good'un.

Most schools don't require uniform when sitting GCSEs anyway.

i'm quite pro-uniforms but it just shows how much time and effort is taken up policing them.

If the rules are there they kind of have to be policed I guess.

I'd imagine there was a long boring governors' meeting where they discussed jewellery policy and everyone was getting sick of trying to decide whether earrings could project below the earlobe and exactly what a plain chain was, and somebody said 'let's just say no jewellery at all' and Lo! whenever two or three people are gathered together, two will consider that the third is inappropriately dressed

if i'd thought of it at school i would have dressed in a loincloth 'just like jesus miss'

Domini, I think there has been an issue about Sikh boys or men being able to carry ceremonial knives - I'm sure it's come up a few times in different places. Not sure of the eventual outcome though.

Someone I knew through work, who was not a Sikh, was given a fixed penalty for having a knife in his van. He was delivering newspapers to newsagents. They come in big bundles tied up in that plastic string binding stuff that you have to cut with a knife... you can see how this starts to piss people off and make them think there's a double standard, can't you?

Actually I was slightly inaccurate there, think it was before fixed penalties came in. He was (ungrammatically) done for it which I think resulted in a fine of some sort.

erm - all the Sikhs i have met in this country carry little knives which are no more than ornamental / tokenistic, not sharp, and you would be hard pressed to open a sherbet dab with one.

Very possibly Blu. But there have still been some debates about 'allowing' Sikh men/boys to carry knives.

Never mind knives, the thing that gets me with the religion is the cost of forgetting your wedding invite, naively assuming that the friends you are going with who are also Sikhs and live in the next street from the groom know which temple it's at, them assuming they know, realising too late thatt they don't and calling at four different temples to find the right one. At each temple all seven of us trouped in, took shoes off, washed hands, walked up to the front, put some money in the pot and only at that stage got to sneak a peek at the happy couple - that cost us an arm and a leg!

Have always wondered what on earth the other families made of us...

To be honest, I lean towards a 'teachers have the right to confiscate anything, at any time, if they believe you are taking the proverbial. Your parents can then come & collect whatever it is, if they can be bothered' policy.

If you really want to wear a ceremonial Sikh knife/naff little promise ring etc for honest religious reasons then you can tuck it away somewhere - if you really want to attract attention, because, well, you're 15, you can make a huge & boring palaver about it, until it's taken off you.

Life is too short for teachers to waste good teaching time, arguing with some 11 year old barrackroom lawyer over whether 2 ear studs & a bracelet is more of a uniform breach than Sarah in 7x1 with her dangly Playboy symbol 9-carat treasures, or Hannah in 7x2 with her 'promise ring'.

OTOH, there is a definite case for adopting salwar kameez as girls' school uniform across the UK. Tidy, modest & practical.

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