Rolf Harris has been charged

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

Can't link as on phone but just got a news flash saying he's been charged with 9 counts of indecent assault, and 4 to do with indecent images.

[NoComet]

I'm 45, so I was 14/15 around that time. Attitudes to teasing and flirting with teens have changed beyond all recognition.
The way some of our teachers behaved would have had many in jail today. Shop keepers, family friends, men working where you had your Saturday job, in fact men in general would eye up, cat call and flirt with any girl with boobs. Their was non of today's, is she 16 paranoia, unless they actually wanted full blown sex.

At that age I went out to disco's and got served in the local pub. I didn't even look particularly grown up.

Most DCs left school at 16 and many went straight to work.

We were probably not as sexually promiscuous in the sense of full intercourse (no condom machines), but we flirted hugged kissed and more. And because we met men at dances, in pubs and at young farmers events. Many of those men were 18-26ish not our peers.

Look back at Benny Hill, the Two Ronnie's any Saturday night 'family' sit com.

Yes things have got better for women in many ways, but we have lost a certain innocence, for want of a better word, in the way the sexes relate to each other.

Undoubtably, men used this relaxed atmosphere to cold and calculatingly, get away with assaulting girls they knew to be under age, but I feel others are being judged unfairly by today's rules. Today's rules are not the same.

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

Please be very careful not to say anything that could prejudice a fair trial.

[Clargo55]

And what about the creation of indecent images last year Star?

[StillSeekingSpike]

I am a bit older than 45- and I couldn't disagree more. There were many men in those days who exploited, abused and assaulted girls and boys- knowing they would get away with it. The rules have always been the same- sex without consent is ASSAULT. It's just now men know they always have to be looking over their shoulders.
When I was at school, a parent of one of the girls found her diary where she'd written about her affair with a headteacher. When it go to court, the judge absolutely laid into her calling a fantasist ( and this guy was no fking prize, believe me).
But we all knew it was true. And one year later he started fking my friend, who was 15 at the time.

[Clargo55]

Sorry Rowan.

[Onesleeptillwembley]

missbracegirdle it's more than possible the person you know wouldn't have known anything. So why you would look at them differently I haven't a clue. Sounds a bit hysterical. However your 'dh' has, by that comment, proved himself to be an apologist. Maybe you ought to be looking at him in a different way.

[HeySoulSister]

I absolutely CAN believe this

And actually, as a child I always found RH too full on/eager to please.

[nocarsgo]

Isn't "making indecent images" legal shorthand for downloading child porn?

[m0nkeynuts]

"The "making" offence
Causing an indecent photograph of a child to exist on a computer screen is considered to be "making an indecent photograph of a child".
"A person who either downloads images on to disc or who prints them off is making them. The Act is not only concerned with the original creation of images, but also their proliferation. Photographs or pseudo-photographs found on the Internet may have originated from outside the United Kingdom; to download or print within the jurisdiction is to create new material which hitherto may not have existed therein." (R v Bowden (1999))"

From Wikipedia

[member]

It can be nocarsgo, the making an image exist on a computer through downloading counts as does photographing or drawing.

Apart from discussing what the wording of the charges mean, I think any speculation puts a fair trial in jeopardy.

If internet forums are an accurate representation of wider society, it makes me absolutely despair at how lacking in knowledge the average person appears to be regarding the difference between being charged with an offence & being found guilty in a court of law.

[member]

Sorry for cross post - delayed pressing post

[Rooners]

He is in his 80s yes?

I can't help but wonder if this has something to do with it - perhaps he actually is losing his marbles.

[Pan]

not sure at all about what you mean losing his marbles Rooners? Would/could that be mitigation in a finding of guilt?

a way of discussing these issues and probably staying the right side of being prejudicial is to discuss in generalities and not specifics. hth

[Rooners]

I have no idea Pan.

It just occurs to me that a man who is 80 odd might be doing things as a result of a loss of cognitive function, more likely than a man in his 50s say.

Does that make sense?

[Rooners]

Dementia in other words

I have zero info about the man in question though.

[Pan]

oh sure Rooners - it feels like I am swiftly heading there meself. But that includes taking the wrong route in a car, wondering where the keys are when I am holding them in my hand.

Generally it doesn't include knowing where to go on the internet to access images of Latvian pig farming as I have v little interest in Latvian pig farming, for instance.

[PurpleGirly]

starbunny I totally agree. Same age as you and was a large chested teen - often pinched and groped. Annoying but didn't ruin my life! Things were very different in then. However any abuse of a child is wrong.

[Rooners]

Yes I see what you are saying Pan. One would need to be fairly far gone to want to look at latvian pig farming sites. It might also be difficult to establish a notable interest by mistake.

[mignonette]

No, as a RMN and wife of a former RMN who managed a dementia unit, this is not a manifestation of the illness we recognise.

[Rooners]

Ok. Sorry, forget I said anything. I am ignorant on the subject - sorry.

[AmberLeaf]

He doesn't have dementia though does he? and the alleged offences were around 30 years ago when he was about 50 anyway. [I know 50 yr olds can have dementia, but he clearly didn't]

[Pan]

Yes, generally many 'defences' and explanations are posited on stuff like this - clumsy fingers pressing the wrong keyboard key, it downloaded by accident when I was downloading something else, I really don't know about the internet etc.

[mignonette]

That's okay Rooner.

Dementia type illnesses generally feature some disinhibition that is true. Some elderly people become sexually disinhibited and that is true. They may grope a young nurse/cleaner etc whereas they would never have behaved in that manner before. Generally though they stay true to sexual orientation.

That is true to desiring adults, say and they don't tend to change their sexual preferences and develop pedophilia. I have never seen it and nor has DH in combined 53 years of nursing. That's not to say that somebody will post that they have come across it but it would be rare for it to be a true sexual deviation at such a late age. Our sexuality might range along a spectrum in the opinion of many but that spectrum is generally quite narrow and influenced and shaped at a very young age.

Now when you imagine looking for illegal stuff like child porn online you can see it would take some level of cognitive function, of planning ,intent, the ability to sequence quite a few activities in order and organisation. That is the kind of functioning that gets lost quite easily w/ Dementia and in a generation that didn't grow up w/ sophisticated I.T, it is statistically even less likely that they would have that knowledge of the backwaters of the internet compared to say a 25 year old or 40 year old. I would imagine that they would also have trouble w/ secrecy too because lying requires huge cognitive health to do effectively.