John Lydon 'I'd like to kill Jimmy Savile' [1978]

[ElenorRigby]

This interview was recorded for BBC radio in late 1978, this excerpt was not broadcast but has just been made available as part of the reissue of the first PIL album.

Lydon:
I think he's a hypocrite.
He's into all kinds of seediness.
We all know about but are not allowed to talk about. I know some rumours.

Interviewer:
People always tell you things.

Lydon:
I bet none of this will be allowed out.

Interviewer:
I should imagine libellous stuff won't be allowed out.

Lydon:
Nothing I've said is libel.

Edam - yes I can understand that people who heard rumours, like your mum, had nothing concrete.

He came across as a creepy twit who could very well get away with leering or groping because of the way he seemed to make it all seem so hilarious and non threatening - with that ridiculous voice he put on.

Everybody knew. Nobody did anything.

YY animation, there was no law against being a creep, and women were expected to put up with sexual harrassment. I put up with it in my first few jobs in the early 90s - even laughed about it with my friends. These days I'd report them.

Even at the time, people would have been horrified and disgusted by sexual assaults on children, but it seems very few people knew that the victims were so young. We are only just realising that SWs right up until today have been treating teenage victims of rapists and abusers as 'slags' making 'a lifestyle choice', as SS and police in Rochdale and Rotherham so charmingly described them.

Getting sick of the big names who 'knew' or had 'heard something' but did nothing or not enough.

John Lydon now resides in the same hall of shame as Esther Rantzen as far as I'm concerned.

Sadly, and disgustingly, lots of people knew:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19984684

Roger Holt, a former record plugger who would visit the Radio 1 offices every week in the 1960s, said Savile's predilection for young girls was "an open secret".

"I heard through his office, just in conversation, 'Jimmy's at it again,'" he said. "He used to travel the country with his colleagues at the BBC [who would say] 'Oh he gets these young girls in his Rolls or the caravan when he was travelling around.'

His caravan was mentioned again when Savile appeared on TV panel show Have I Got News For You in 1999. Panel member Ian Hislop asked him what he did in the caravan.

"Anybody I can lay my hands on," Savile replied, letting his guard down for the sake of an apparent smutty joke, and getting loud applause from the audience in response.

It's disgusting that so many people protected him and ignored what was going on.

But what could they have done in that time? This was not a time reporting suspicions to the police would have led to any action. People who were his superiors had more options but to just hear a rumour? Unless people advocating vigilantism?

This was what happened with abuse in most communities. So many people damaged because of unspoken understandings that Mr Nice Shop Man or choir guy or swimming instructor was to be avoided but with nothing done. My uncle remembers two local men my grandparents repeatedly warned him not to be alone with. This is one of the reasons children who were already vulnerable living in chaotic homes with their own issues were so much more at risk with no one to share these warnings etc.

The scale of Jimmy Savile' s abuse was immense but turning a blind eye aS endemic. I'm not excusing it but I don't think that just because someone was a celebrity turning a blind eye it makes them specifically culpable. Thank God things have changed. Such awful times.

Surely if enough people had said something then something would have to have been done? I mean, morally, it was wrong then? Or am I being naive?

I just think culture is weird like that. I think it was a time in which there was such an attitude of 'that's none of my business' that people just avoided the discomfort. It was wrong and seems weird now but I suppose I just feel when this denial was going on in practically every community throughout the land on some level I can't feel personal animosity to some celebrity for just behaving like every other blind see/hear/speak-no-evil monkey in the country at that time. Including members of my own family and community.

I think the culture has changed a great deal. Recently my mum was saying that there are more paedophiles around these days. I disagreed, saying that I thought children were just more likely to be believed now.

I gave her an example: if as a child I had told her that my Uncle had put his hands in my knickers whilst I sat on his lap, she would have called me a liar, said that I always need to bring attention to myself - anything to prevent a fuss being made. By contrast, if my daughter told me the same, I would believe her 100% and something would be done about it. Surprisingly for her, she didn't disagree, and neither did she asked if my Uncle had done that (best not know).

I think these celebrities saw these children and young adults as part of their entitlement. It also makes me wonder that if this many celebrities were are it, what does this say about men (and yes I am sure this is not wholly gender specific) and their desires to control/abuse generally.