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holidays in term time parents win a victory over the lea

215 replies

zippitippitoes · 23/05/2006 12:29

.........\link{http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/23/nedu23.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/05/23/ixuknews.html\ story here}

"When they returned home to Park Farm, Peterborough, from the visit to Cape Town to see Mrs Donaldson's family last Christmas, the local education authority ordered them to pay a £50 fine for each child. The penalty doubled after the fine was not paid within 42 days.

When that was not paid, they were ordered to appear before Peterborough magistrates, charged with failure to ensure their children's regular attendance at school. However, the couple were given an unconditional discharge, with no fine and no costs."

OP posts:
Blandmum · 23/05/2006 18:23

SueW if you wemt swimming in Mablethorpe, I am seriously impressed! You are made of very tough stuff!

bubblerock · 23/05/2006 18:26

Haven't read the whole thread, how come they visited family at christmas but missed too much school? My kids have a couple of weeks off at christmas?!? It does seem unnecessary (sp?) to take them out for 10+ days on top of the holidays already given from school!

SueW · 23/05/2006 18:27

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at OP's request.

bubblerock · 23/05/2006 18:33

BTW - as a hotelier, yes the demand is there during school holidays/BH's etc but it doesn't mean you have to rip people off - you don't get any more for your money, it's disgusting! Angry

JonesTheSteam · 23/05/2006 18:37

fullmoonfield - agree with your point about holidays in this country.

We looked at going to a holiday cottage in W. Wales over Whitsun. It cost £250 more over the half term holiday than it did the week after.

We're now going to CenterParcs instead - that cost nearly £400 less the week after Whitsun, it wasn't difficult to decide which week to go.

poppadum · 23/05/2006 18:38

Why not have a test to determine if the children are behind in class when they return? If they fail, STONE THEM.

Like expat, I too have all my family overseas, as does my DH. I don't believe seeing them once a year is "the price I have to pay for living away from my family." My daughter missed two weeks of school this year so she could see her grandparents. I coach her when she is away, and so far, she hasn't fallen behind the class. My children, my responsibility.

tissy · 23/05/2006 18:44

yes, poppadum, your children are your responsibility, but if kids with less responsible parents are returning from two weeks in the sun, and needing more of the teacher's attention because their parents can't be bothered, why should my daughter suffer?

UglySister · 23/05/2006 18:44

I´d like to know the real reason why folk are getting so het up about this issue. My gut feeling is that those who pay through the neck to go on expensive holidays during the school holidays resent the fact that others pay less and go during term time. If so, this is very sad.

It is not clear to me if MNs are upset about this particular case and taking children out of school for 18 days (and yes this is shockingly long imo if really 3 and a half weeks, not 2 and a half) or about the whole principle of taking children out of school for holidays in general, for one week or two, as is currently allowed. I think families should retain the right to holiday together on an annual basis and that it is v important that parents abroad make a sustained effort to ensure their children retain links with their parents country of origin. It is outrageous to say that family contact just might have to be sacrificed. Neither is the "I did without so everybody else can do without" argument v convincing.

It is impossible to put all families and children into the same shape holes. Different strokes for different folks. You can only do what you think is best in your own circumstances.

V sorry this is so long.

SenoraPostrophe · 23/05/2006 18:47

no, the reason people get so het up about it is because they don't like to see their child's class's education disrupted because of someone's cheap holiday. Because it does disrupt the whole class to an extent, especially if many children do it.

This case is slightly different though because a family visit is concerned. depends what type of family they are (aunt? third cousin?) and the reasons for not going in the holidays I think.

Twiglett · 23/05/2006 18:49

I think holidaying in term time is wrong .. plain wrong .. its disruptive and divisive and an 'I'm alright Jack' mentality

and no we can't afford holidays in general .. in fact this year is our first in 5 years (we're going to Devon)

tissy · 23/05/2006 18:52

Well, I'm not getting het up, I'm contributing my point of view to a discussion!

I don't resent the fact that others have cheaper holidays than me, and I didn't say "I did without so everybody else can do without". What I did say was that not having holidays as a young child didn't do me any harm. Sure, family links are important, but there's no reason why people can't go during school holidays- they're long enough!

Blandmum · 23/05/2006 18:55

poppadom, what makes me a bit cross is the parents who are the opposite to you. They take their kids out and then expect me to set and mark separate work for their kid! Bloody cheek! And they have the brass neck to whinge if their little cherub fails to get a C grade.

And a week out of term time can make that difference.

I had a sixth form student who asked me to give up my lunch time to tutor him, as he was missing my lesson to go to a gig! I shit you not! Tough luck sez I, you skive, you catch up!

Caligula · 23/05/2006 18:56

Is it disruptive though? If it were, the school would refuse permission.

I'm pretty sure about three or four kids in my DS's class went on holiday in term time last year, but I can't recall any dramatic disruption in his learning. But he's six. I can imagine that at secondary level it is more disruptive.

PrincessPeaHead · 23/05/2006 18:56

I think visiting nan in enfield is also fine, if they are ensuring they are educated while they do it! I think the LEA should be spending their money making sure that persistant truants, parents who can't be arsed (or have serious problems) to send their children to school, etc are looked at - surely the point of the LEA is to ensure that children are educated, and give special attention to vulnerable/wayward children? NOT chasing well educated well intentioned parents who aren't breaking any law, just because they want to make a point/are chippy about the fact they can afford to go abroad on holiday/whatever other dumb reason they have.
It is a crap use of resources, and when no law is being broken smells of pettiness/chippiness/pointlessness

Caligula · 23/05/2006 19:00

Agree PPH. It does sound like the motivation for the prosecution, along with the way it was conducted (lack of communication etc.) is a bit suspicious. It sounds like they were trying to make a political point, rather than using a weapon of last resort when all other avenues had failed. I just wonder if that particular LEA's truancy rate is better than anyone else in the country's. Anyone know?

PrincessPeaHead · 23/05/2006 19:00

I fail to see how some kid not being in my dd's class for 2 weeks adversely affects my dd in any way whatsoever.

It is all bollocks. live and let live for gods sake.

Blandmum · 23/05/2006 19:04

it will because it will affect the teacher's plans for the following weeks. He/she will have planned and differentiated work for the class based on their ability/prior knowlege. You take your kid out, and s/he will have to spent time on them catching up the two weeks. And this on top of the other differentiation that needs to be done. Or the teacher could just give up their lunch I suppose, rather as the student asked me.

And yes, kids will miss things through illness, but this is an additional burden on already over streched teaching and support staff

UglySister · 23/05/2006 19:06

I never went on holiday anywhere, ever, as a child and was completely oblivious that everybody else´s jaunts in term time disrupted classwork on their return.

If the disruptive kids go on holiday in term time everyone is pleased about getting some peace and they certainly don´t disrupt the class further on their return in order to catch up on missed work! If a good student goes on holiday s/he quietly just gets on with things on return. I do have sympathy for those teachers who have to prepare and mark extra work though!

SueW · 23/05/2006 19:14

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at OP's request.

Blandmum · 23/05/2006 19:14

I don't do any , anymore. I have spent my time' too often, prepaing work to see the kids return with it left undone. If the parents take them out, they can set their kids some work. Their kids, their 'right' , their 'responsibility'.

Littlefish · 23/05/2006 19:26

Ugly sister - I really have to comment on this section of your last message.

"If the disruptive kids go on holiday in term time everyone is pleased about getting some peace and they certainly don´t disrupt the class further on their return in order to catch up on missed work!"

Of course there is some disruption caused by their return to school. They will have missed some work, even in reception, when it is likely to be some of the basic phonic or number work. The teacher will have to re-plan to allow for this, which will, inevitably have a knock on effect on the other children in the class. The child may need some additional individual time with the teacher or teaching assistant which will divert the teacher or TA away from the rest of the class.

Would you prefer that the teacher ignores the part of the curriculum that your child has missed and doesn't bother to try and teach your child those key skills or knowledge.

I have never contributed to this type of thread before, but your message has really made me cross.

UglySister · 23/05/2006 19:47

LittleFish, I´m sorry to have offended. To clarify, I was specifically thinking of the impact that the absence of a disruptive child would have, and I had in mind older children really who would be more responsible for themselves and their learning when catching up.

Teachers are constantly improvising their lesson plans to take into consideration who has been out of school due to health problems or holidays etc. I prefer to look at the long-term and hope that in this time frame the teacher´s attention will be divided up more or less equally amongst all children. I also think that recapping information is valuable for the whole class.

Apologies again.

Blandmum · 23/05/2006 19:54

US, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of kids I have taught this year who have 'caught up' work. I teach around 180 children and at present teach most of the most well motivated and pleasent children in the school. And even they don't catch up missing work.

Your faith in them is touching, but in my experience, sadly misplaced Smile

poppadum · 23/05/2006 19:55

Definitely would never expect the teacher to set and mark work for my child, unless there are exceptional circumstances. Perhaps it hasn't made too much difference so far because my daughter is only 6, and I can easily teach her everything they learn in school. I don't think I can keep this up when they start fractions!

I suspect that this couple would have generated less hysteria if they had been off to Enfield, or say, Bangladesh. It's because they are posh folk on posh hols that they are being crucified.

Twiglett · 23/05/2006 19:57

PPH .. I don't think its bollocks at all .. I think its disruptive and divisive

I actually think its worse the younger they are .. I think they stand to miss out on a lot more groundwork which will have a much larger knock-on effect on their catching up .. much of it isn't taught but learned through play