Co-sleeping - now am I being stupid about this?

[emkana]

Heard \link{http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5001694.stm\this} on the news today.

Now if hopefully, hopefully this baby I'm having is well then I'm planning to co-sleep with him just like I did with dd2 (less so with dd1 in the beginning). I will probably sleep in the back bedroom in a double bed, just me and the baby, to keep baby away from dh (who smokes a few fags every night, outside, but still) and from dd's who might come into our bed. I will also try and keep baby well away from my pillow/duvet.

Doing all this I just cannot believe that co-sleeping is that risky. OTOH I am worried that I might be a bit pig-headed about this, believing what I want to believe, when I would in other debates berate people for not taking the research evidence seriously.

So I don't know what to think really. Over to you!

Which bit??

yes, I did that with dd1 - wake up in a sweat looking for her in the bed
not with dd2 thought because she's already there
btw, regarding babies stopping breathing - one of the reasons they recommend sleeping int he same room for six months is (iirc) that the theory is the parent's heart rate/breathing somehow regulates the baby's.

I have done this with both mine in the early months.

BUT only because i was b/feeding in bed and subsequently fell asleep. I always used to feel guilty about having done so because of having read reports like that in the past. I also used to wake with a crick in my neck because i would sleep with my arm outstretched to stop me rolling over with baby under my armpit.

It IS a very misleading report.

This is total rubbish.

It was articles like this - based on sketchy statistics and interviews with opinionated (usually male) obscure medical professionals - that put me off co-sleeping with my DS. I ended up doing it when he was 7 months 'by accident' when I was ill and thank goodness I did as it made me realise how benefical and natural co-sleeping is. Until I had the better sense to realise it, I actually used to feel 'guilty' about it but carried on because (unsurprising) it worked really well for DS, me and DP! If I'd done it from the start, I really think we would have had such an easier, more sleep-filled enjoyable time of it.

'Some-benefits' - How about a massive help to breast-feeding mothers and babies. Allot less disturbed sleep. Responding totally to the natural instincts of babies and mothers. When my DS was ill I instictovly monitored him and checked him all night, everytime his cough sounded bad I could raise him up, pat his back, listen closely to his breathing.

Yet another in a long line of attacks by this society on natural, nuturing parenting techniqiues that have served the mothers and babies alike for eternity. These things clinicalise parenting and teach us not to trust our instincts in favour of leaflets and so call 'medical experts'.

Yes, co-sleeping has great potential for danger if the bed has gaps the baby can get stuck in, someone in the bed has taken drugs or their are great big 15 tog douvets floating around that can easily be pulled over the babies head. I researched the safety of co-sleeping and there are some studies which support it as safer and some studies that dont. It is put in the same bag as deaths that occur when exhusted people fall asleep in chairs with babies, slumping over them, which is totally different.

By all mean, teach SAFE co-sleeping but it's just wrong to scare women out of doing something so natural and mutually beneficial - and safe - if they want to do it.

If I ever have any more children they will be co-sleeping with me from the start. My advice would be to read up on how to do it safely - maybe read 'Three in a Bed' and go for it if you feel it is right for you.

co-slept with all 5 of mine (not at the same time mind you) and all are healthy and alive. Just stuff blankets in any cracksbetween the bed and wall. I used to shove my bed up against a wall or dresser and let baby sleep there wtih me beside them. I also used a separate blanket for baby while they were really small in case I flipped my big blanket on them while sleeping. Other than that, we slept soundly and I felt better knowing baby was beside me and, the baby snuggled in like it was the most natural thing in the world, which, it is!

Yes read Three in a Bed, it's great.

I [psted this earlier.
Mumsnet has been so slow i didn't see this thread. I think it's terrible scaremongering. Unfortualtely it will probably have the desired effect if people don't research what he's said!

By Angeliz on Monday, 22 May, 2006 9:58:28 AM

I know there are risks but this really pisses me off.

Now i know co-sleeping isn't for everyone. I didn't paln it, i sort of fell into it but am all for it now. I do worry, same as i'd worry about baby being by itself in a cot but research and facts are interesting.
This article to me is one big scary headline and then when you read it, it's based on one mans 'ESTIMATE'!!
People will hear the headline and form an opinion but if you don't go on to read the story you may actually beleive it!!
Opinions?

rummaging and shouting for your baby in the bed

I'd be interested to know if their were other factoprs than just co-sleeping involved in these cases - smoking, excessive triredness, taking of drugs (inc prescribed), drinking, use of pillow, use of duvet, heat of room, etc.

We co-slept with DD. We did have a bedisde cot when she was 6 weeks. before then it was just our bed. After then she started in her cot but always gradually wriggled over.

DD was in a Grobag on top of the duvet, and below the pillow. She started by sleeping at the side of the bed, next to me and I had the cot beside me (pre 6 weeks - the wooden crib was there, forming the same barrier as if she'd been in it - she hated it though). We don't smoke. I didn't take prescribed on non-[rescribed drugs and never had more than a glass of wine at the most. Our rooms were pretty warm, but I dressed DD accordingly following the Grobag advice. As DD got older she often went in the middle of the bed between me and DH, again on top of duvet. Not once did we wake up with her in any risky position or danger. Never rolled on to her, or anything. However we did all sleep at least.

What bugged me about this news story was that it just took for granted that babycare is purely the mum's responsibility (rather than partner's/extended family's) even if that results in mothers becoming dangerously exhausted. In other words, this guy's response to the problem was not to say 'as families and members of wider society maybe we should be giving new mums more support so they don't get so exhausted they fall asleep on their kids' but 'don't co-sleep', despite the fact that that case they keep quoting where the mother fell asleep on the sofa whilst feeding a baby, having done the same thing with an earlier child had NOTHING to do with co-sleeping and was all about maternal exhaustion.

shared bed excl. for first 6weeks bedside cot since but plenty of nights we still share a bed.
like all things common sense should be used. i was careful of where her head was, always used separate bedding (high summer so only a sheet) since then she used a grobag.
whenever i was too tired to deal with her during the night dh stepped in.
i agree fathers seem to be taken out of the equation sadly.

i was reading in some parenting magazine about a woman who lost a child, she had taken the baby to bed with her and fell asleep with the child on her belly, presumably the baby on his tummy too, strikes me as unusual really and nothing to do with normal co sleeping

The article wrote: "While it's lovely to have your baby with you for a cuddle or a feed, it's safest to put your baby back in their cot before you go to sleep." What if baby won't sleep in their cot, then what? Let baby cry it out in the cot, so then everyone doesn't get sleep? At least baby is SAFE! Or is it? What about the dangers of cortisol flooding a tiny baby's system and the adverse changes studies that says it causes to a baby's developing nervous system.

Just another example of pig-headed doctors ignoring the emotional needs of babies and covering their own backs by issuing blanket prohibitions, instead of useful risk-mitigating advice (ie avoid if take drugs, drink heavily etc).

I will still co-sleep with baby no.2 with breastfeeding in bed, if it works out. As it is, nature does make mothers of newborn babies much lighter sleepers, because the movements of the mother and baby prevent each from entering deep sleep, a potentially dangerous state for baby to be in, because their still immature respiratory systems can "forget" to breathe - one theory of SIDS anyway.

And breastfeeding mothers tend to rest their baby's head in the crook of their shoulder, making it impossible to roll over baby. Emkana, I am ignoring this report as well

funny how most people go along with all the recommendations for laying your baby down in a cot to prevent SIDS but this is somehow 'rubbish'

I don't get it.

I followed the same rules for co-sleeping as given for cot sleeping.

I don't co-sleep with either DS, although have done on a couple of occasions. But I cannot see how putting a non-rolling young baby on a firm, flat mattress in a baby sleeping bag with no covers or pillows near them is any different from putting them in a cot in a sleeping bag.

I've co-slept with all 3. Until they stopped bfing at night basically. Never meant to, but it was so obviously the most sensible thing for us. DS#1 was 18months when he stopped, DD was 3 and DS#2 is 3 and still with us at least part of the night. The older ones still come in if they need the company for any reason. When they were very tiny they slept with a few blankets on top of the duvet but as they got older they just got in between us. I always raise ds#2 up so that his head is against the headboard rather than down with us so that he can't get too hot....however in the morning he's usually covered up with the duvet anyway. When they were tiny I did get a few scares when they were sleeping too deeply and woke them up in a panic only to be rewarded with resentful screams from a hitherton happily sleeping baby.

I find the timing of this 'report' a bit suspicious. Nothing to do with the recent report that co-sleeping until 5 was the best thing????

Personally I ignore things like that. I co-slept with all of mine, including the DTs. In fact there aren't many nights when the DTs don't come in with me. We never had to worry about duvets etc cos they always kicked any kind of covering off.

Me... I'm all for sleep and as much as possible whilst they are tiny. I think co-sleeping is wonderful!

hunkermonkee - the thing I don't understand is if the baby is put to sleep as you say, then how do you stop rolling over in the night on to the baby, or your duvet, sheet, whatever moving on top of them? When I wake up our duvet is never in the place it was when we went to sleep.

I lost respect for this opinion when I read that it referred to "sharing a bed or sofa with... parents". Two totally different situations with totally different risk profiles. Also - as others have said - no account is taken of drinking, smoking etc or of whether the babies were breast or formula fed (not saying this would make a huge difference, but it's obviously one factor in the mix, and I believe that formula fed babies tend to sleep for longer between feeds).

A friend who's a psychiatric nurse told me that people have been known to have psychotic episodes after as little as 48 hours without sleep. I know that disturbed sleep very soon makes me emotional, irrational and extremely paranoid. I wonder what the comparative risks to a child are of co-sleeping in a bed with all precautions taken, versus living with a mother on the verge...?

I thought that the things about co-sleeping which were supposed to reduce cot death (as opposed to smothering) were temperature regulation and breathing stimulation by carbon dioxide exhalation. No idea how scientific evidence there is for this, but it's difficult to see how a baby in a cot at the other side of the parents' bedroom gains any benefit from being in the same space.

I tuck the duvet into the bottom of the bed, then wrap it under myself so I'm sleeping on the edge nearest to the baby iyswim. When they wake up, I tuck that bit between my knees as I feed otherwise my back aches from lying on my side.

I do find that they wake more often if I feed lying down though - they fall asleep too soon and don't get a big enough feed or they "snack" and I find that really hard, hence my preferred place for DS2 is in the crib next to me.

"I wonder what the comparative risks to a child are of co-sleeping in a bed with all precautions taken, versus living with a mother on the verge...? "

Exactly Redzuleika!
Or, even if the mother isn't psychotic, if she's overtired she's still going to be more likely to drop the baby downstairs, have a car accident, and all the hundred and one other disasters that aren't as likely when you're well rested and feeling on top of things.

It's a really emotive issue. I do think that there is a difference between people who have a few drinks and then fall asleep on the sofa,bed, wherever and actually bedsharing in a responsible manner.

The SIDS organisation are very helpful and when I have spoken to them they have said that in principle it's best not to do it - but they would because they want to eliminate all risk - but if you do to never sleep with bably between you since the double body heat can cause the baby to overheat.

There has been reserch that suggests reponsible bed sharing a fine since the parent's sleep rhythms fall in line with that of the infant's (ie every hour) so you never really fall into a deep sleep.

Personally I would not bed share but that's because I'm a worrier and I know that if I did I would not sleep properly anyway. However millions of people do and have done since the beginning of time - let's face it in pre-historic times you were'nt going to put your baby in a separate sleeping area incase it got nicked by wolves so I guess it's all part of the himan nature.

compo, you just don't. Before ds was born I used to toss and turn all night and frequently ended up wrapped in the duvet in a totally different position from where I'd fallen asleep.

With ds in our bed, neither dp nor I have ever rolled on top of him and I don't turn over without checking (still half-asleep) that ds is ok. I'm not bfing him anymore, but I still seem to be sleeping in a "protective" way iyswim.