The April Jones trial has started

[NorthernLurker]

The trial of Mark Bridger for the abduction and murder of April Jones plus some other charges has started today. From what I've read of the initial statements given by the prosecution, it's clearly going to be a very distressing case.
My thoughts are with all in court including the jury but most especially with April's parents who are in court. I don't know how they can bear it.

Far from it Scrappy. He will be on the numbers for the rest of his life, and even then he will find no protection.

I'm a bit scared TBH. He seemed a normal guy, another parent, within that community. How many people do we take on trust where our children are concerned with our own communities (playdates, lifts to activities, parties etc). And yet, if we don't, we'll be in a right mess and children will never come on socially, and learn independence.

That's how I feel about it Growlithe. He got to the age of approaching 50 before this side of his character became apparent.

Perhaps he just got to this age before he got caught ? But even so you can't go around assuming that everyone is a potential child abuser, it is probably no more prevalent than in the past but internet has opened up more opportunities to share ideas, find material and "normalise" such behaviour.

BMW what does "on the numbers" mean?

No, of course you can't go around thinking that and I wouldn't change the fact that generally I trust people are safe. After all - that is all you can do.

BTW I thought downloading images like the ones described would usually alert the police so I wonder why that didn't happen in this case.

I have a question about the evidence from the computer. Not in any way defending him but I wondered... If someone had an interest in murders in general and they looked at sites which had pictures of crime scenes and/or victims then would that all come up on the computer's history even if the person hadn't actively saved those pictures?

I ask because I am not clear about the way in which they checked his computer. Did he have pictures of that kind saved in files or was it just search history?

I think many of us here who have followed criminal cases will have looked at sites with pictures of the victims etc, so those kinds of things would be traceable on our computers too?

Fanjo any websites you view can always be found on your pc, even if you clear the history, by people who know what they're doing and have the right software. The only way to truly delete something is to destroy the hard drive (literally pounding it with a brick or something - it surprises me why murderers don't immediately do this in case they're arrested really).

It's all about context though. Having an interest in crime and googling it is one thing. Googling it whilst also googling "naked five year olds" would trigger alarm bells.

Can't you also trace what websites have been visited via your ISP?

I think this case just reiterates that you really don't know anyone else even close friends. Many years ago I had a work colleague that I spent a lot of time with outside the office (on business trips). I knew about him, his family, his interests and hobbies, things he liked/disliked etc. I would say that I knew him extremely well. He killed his wife and himself in an horrific manner. I didn't have a clue that he was planning anything like that (and there was a large amount of planning involved) even though I spent a lot of time with him immediately prior to it happening.

I also had a friend do something to me recently (using a photo of ds to pretend he was her ds) which I found really creepy and again that is someone I considered I knew well.

Ds has been asking a lot about the outcome of the trial so I've used it as another reminder that he must never ever go anywhere without checking wiht me first even if it is with the parent of a close friend. In reality most children are harmed by people known to them than by complete strangers.

Very scary, the whole story. That poor girl, what she may have suffered we will never know. But the evidence all points to her being tortured, mutilated and murdered at the hands of such evil.
My thoughts go out to April's parent's and children, so sad and heartbreaking that this could happen to a child riding her bike in her own area

Angers, I think you may have pm-ed me the following by mistake this morning - surely you wouldn't be so cowardly as to be abusive in private? :)

"Go -ahead and live in your bubble wrapped world where it is obviously ok to let a 5yr ol child roam free with no supervision and add to that gone 7pm.... You obviously are too idiotic to to have actually read the original post and understood the whole point, NO, it far easier to jump on the do-gooder bandwagon with everyone else."

I have reported this for you, btw, just in case you accidently make the same mistake and privately harrass someone else who disagrees with you :)

Dueling - I think he actually had folders with collections of images of children who had been murder victims as well as other folders with other images. I agree it is about context though - the child pornography was the key thing here combined with the other evidence.

That's very true bico, people like this can hide the evil side of themselves far too well. When I was young my mother got together with a man and after a few years moved him into our home, and then got engaged to him. He was long time friends with a few friends of hers too and everyone thought he was a nice guy, very gentle, kind, etc. Then one day his sister let slip something about his past and it all came out that he had sexually abused one of his own children and had since not been allowed near his own children and had been banned from being left alone with any other child (and certainly shouldn't have been living with us!). My mother stayed with him despite this until one day out of the blue he 'lost it' and threatened us all with a knife and had to be taken away by the police. He had hidden that side of him from everyone for years.

"In reality most children are harmed by people known to them than by complete strangers.

Yes, both April and Tia were killed by people known to them. I wept for her mothers statement, its NOT her/their fault. He targeted a child he new playing outside, and he knew the fact that she knew his kids would sway her.

when I first heard the story I also said "what a 5 year old, out on her own" , as a knee jerk reaction. but now I read about the area, it was rural, green, kids played out. I would NEVER ever judge them now

Tiger that's awful and so upestting that your mother chose to stay with him knowing the kind of man he was.

classy angers sending nasty pm's tsk tsk

Re the 'out after 7pm thing' - many people seem to be forgetting the fact that April knew Mark Bridger. He could have picked her up playing out at midday.

I grew up in rural Wales. We played out, up until teatime and sometimes after. What a great childhood it was. Long may it be so for children.

Many people who grew up or who are bringing children up now in similar areas say this is the norm. When I grew up in an urban area it was the norm there too. You take your lead from the community around you.

And as for it being a bit late, they'd been to a parent's evening, and heard she'd done well. Things were probably a bit out of routine that day, and they wanted to give her a treat.

And besides, the argument that her being out where they couldn't see her being a contributing factor only really stands up if the murderer was a stranger. It seems Bridger was trusted by the community. In fact it would seem that he was an charismatic accomplished liar who would have had us all fooled.

We cannot live our lives and restrict our children's happy childhood for fear that every person, known or unknown to us, is capable of this. We would not be doing the best for our children if we thought like this all the time. April's parents had every right to let her play with her friend till bedtime in their safe little community because she'd done well at school.

I agree with the poster who said the time of day is a red herring - Bridger could just as easily done this at midday. He was looking for the opportunity. It could have been any other child, given the opportunity. He lured April because she KNEW him, he was not a dangerous stranger, he was "just" X's dad - adults who have known him years had no inkling that he could be secretly like this, so how could a 5yo know. I am sure he told her some lie about going off to see her friend, or that her parents had said it was OK, he would have been smiling and charming, not at all scary - and she trusted him. Had he come and asked her parents if he could go treat her and his DD to an ice cream, or take them out somewhere, maybe they would have said yes - they thought they knew him, lots of people thought they knew him. This is what worries me most - men like this are hidden in plain view. Every village or estate has them. every school has parents like this. we don't know where they are.

I remember years ago seeing a program where the production team were adamant that their kids knew not to go off with anyone. They had this drilled into them and were then left to playing a park with film crew watching - parent sat close by reading the paper - bloke comes along with a dog lead and asks the child to help look for his lost puppy and the child goes, straight away, no persuasion needed - the parents were gobsmacked, thinking their child knew not to go off.

I for one have been working through some "scenarios" with my DC - and hopefully all are old enough to understand that not going off with ANYONE without telling me, includes friends of the family who they have previously had lifts from, and aunts and uncles etc etc.

RIP April, and peace & healing to your family

Those saying he could have done this at anytime are missing my point. I think 5 years old is too young to be out, alone, unsupervised at any time of day or night. I don't class other children as supervision. I'm really surprised that people are saying they don't agree and that a child is capable of looking after themselves and making decisions about safety at 5 years old. I don't think 5 year olds should be playing in the streets without a responsible adult. I know I'm not alone in this opinion.

The fact that it is a close knit community where everyone knows each other doesn't matter particularly as children are statistically more likely to be harmed by someone they know.

I'm leaving this thread now.

The fact that it is a close knit community where everyone knows each other doesn't matter particularly as children are statistically more likely to be harmed by someone they know.

So what do you do Kitty? Never let your DCs out of your own sight because you won't trust anybody?

At that age? No I wouldn't, absolutely not. That's what I've been trying to say.

So by the age of 5 you wouldn't have left a child with anyone else? They'd have been only with you solidly for 5 years?