Gove says lengthen school days and shorten long summer holiday

[juneau]

Here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22202694

I think it's a great idea and I'm sure working parents will welcome it. I also think it's bollocks that teachers need the six week summer break to recharge their batteries. Do they work harder or longer hours than other workers who only get four or five weeks a year then?

Having just endured a bored DS1 over the Easter holidays I think any break of more than two weeks is actually pretty dull for kids and I'm sure poorer kids really suffer from lack of stimulation and/or money to do stuff.

Really not liking the idea of longer school days. It's hard enough now to fit in a bit of homework, have tea, a bit of running around, a bit of down time and anything else dd wants to get up to. Plus dancing one night and drama another. And she is tired at the end of term. The stuff she wants to fit in is only likely to increase the older she gets, plus ds is still not at school.

Don't mind the school holidays being as they are now. A long summer break at least means we might get some nice weather to enjoy as the weather has been rubbish for the last four holidays and was the same may half term and easter hols last year.

Also to note that Nottingham City Council have been trying to implement a shorter summer holidays (but school days same length) and have come up against opposition from teachers, unions and parents, although not ure of the reasons why. They started suggesting a four week summer holiday and then offered an alternative of a five week summer hol instead. Not sure where they are at now.

Gove is a nincompoop

Oh I was being sensationally sarcastic Euphemia. I am a teacher. I was speaking on behalf of the toad Gove, who seems to hate us for some reason and think we are all shirkers.

Phew, snotface!

Btw, I want one of those helpful army types too....

I fail to recognize a lot of the themes on here. Ds is 9 he wakes between 630-730, goes to sleep at 9-930pm, he could easily handle a longer school day. Most days he does a good hour's sport after school, also 30 mins to an hour's homework each night. I would welcome this being incorporated into the school day TBH. I do understand that teachers would need to be remunerated for the extra hours, but to suggest it's not in a child's best interests?

As others have said school holidays should be more evenly spread. The summer slide in children from deprived backgrounds is well documented.

And I'm typing this in between editing a video the children made today, marking books and planning for a lesson I am delivering tomorrow even though I'm part time and don't work on Fridays. I am doing thee extra work because I want to - because I care - and because I want the children to get the most out of school. NOT because I am a shirker with low expectations and who does the bear minimum.

It always irks me when these debates come up and the cry of 'but teachers don't work harder than other professionals' comes up. Maybe we don't, but lawyers, doctors...etc are not constantly made to defend themselves from accusations (from their own secretary of state no less) of being incompetent and lazy, which seem to be the central message in all his speeches.

Bad idea all round imo.

Where is he going to find the money to resource all this extra time?
Where is he going to find additional staff to cover some of it?
The salary increases is not just teachers - but TA, dinner staff, school patrol crossings, office staff, caretakers...
It will also cost more in heating, lighting, electricity, school resources...

Children will need feeding if there til 6pm - who/where/when?

It will not reduce summer holiday prices either. They will not reduce as holiday companies know most people will still holiday inthe summer. But the 3 or 4 weeks holidays will get higher again.

Imagine you work in an office and everyone is a parent. How do offices make sure everyone gets their time off but still mans the office? Can they all get it in those 3 or 4 weeks. Because no one really wants to go on holiday in the winter unless they can afford long haul. So then you see term time holidays increasing and unauthorised absence increasing in schools.

Not to mention how shattered children already are come 3:30pm or after a 7 week term.

Won't affect my DD - she goes to an independent school. She already has 3 additional weeks holiday each year. Strangely doesn't affect the academic results in those schools nor the way the children learn.

IME DD never gets bored in the longer holidays.

Maybe the Government should just actually leave stuff as it is, stop changing the rules every year, leave the curriculum alone for a while and let teachers teach.

Things don't work as they are introduced, given a year and then changed. Nothing is ever given proper time or resources to actually kick in and work.

I really do think it smacks of a thoroughgoing contempt for all families who use the state sector for education. I think gove and co. think that all state schools are rubbish, a liberal education is only for the élite, and that all families in the state sector are feral.

I really don't like the whole "childcare" idea, which is very divide and rule. The idea is to pitch WOHM and SAHM parents against each other, That just disguises the issue. I think the real issues are about increased state control of children - or rather of families who use the state sector; and increased control of state education.

If Gove wants the EA system, then we need to get rid of group work, individual learning, parents are completely respectful to the teachers and students bow and don't answer back.
Perhaps we should teach in Japanese as well?

The school day is quite long enough for a child to be in a classroom. Its also long enough for the teachers who have loads to do after school and during their holidays.

So what if working parents would welcome the change. School is not a free child care facility, there to occupy children!

And, OP, if your son gets bored during the hols how about you actually doing something educational/fun with him??

Personally, I wish the school day was shorter so that I could do other activities with my children.

Wish
"he could easily handle a longer school day"
how do you know this or is it just based on the assumption that he could?

And it would be a nightmare for different schools and different LEAs to have different holidays!

Teachers with children in different LEA to themself.
Holidaying with family and friends in different LEAs.
Holiday companies maximising profits even more across the whole time.

Besides children NEED down time. I don't want DD is school til the evening. I want her home to have chance to play outside, to have friends round, to relax and watch TV, to play games, to sit and do some craft, to go to outside activities and clubs to meet and make friends outside of her school.

And just when will the teaching staff get the time to actually plan and assess, or set up their classroom... if they don't leave the classroom til 5 or 6pm, when???

And parent's evenings, etc. They can't occur til all the children have left the teacher's supervision - so are they going to be late at night to fit them in?

I am thoroughly glad mine are through the system and I am no longer in teaching! The country can't afford it- teachers are not paid for holidays and a lot of extra money would have to be found. DCs need a childhood.

Are we talking about more time in the classroom tho ? I thought it would allow more sports , then perhaps an hour's homework. This is similar to the independent sector. I think this would level the playing field. At the moment some dcs get to do sports/art/music after school. Others get to have 4-5 hours in front of a screen.

But that is the problem Wish nobody knows what gove is suggesting.

He on the one hand says that we need a more prescriptive education system then says that longer days and shorter holidays will allow for a broader curriculum.

Which is it?

Vast number of private and independent schools do NOT have substantially longer days.

DD's infants - 8:30am to 3:30pm
DD's juniors - 8:30am to 3:45pm
DD's high school - 8:30am to 3:30pm

All get longer for lunch time than the local state schools and all have afternoon break as well as morning break, which many of our state schools from juniors up no longer have.

Oh and DD has 3 weeks more holiday (extra week at summer, Easter and Christmas) plus often finishes at lunch time on the last days before each holiday, usually on a Thursday and never returns til the Tuesday. So several days less.

Currently, kids do that with staff who are prepared to give their time after school.

However, if all kids had to stay later and every day then you could not rely on those staff who volunteer, be it clubs or homework time, you have to pay staff to run them and those staff would need to delay their preparation time until later in the day.

Staff are paid more in the independent sector and this is one of the reasons for that.

How do you know he could handle it ? He was at nursery 8-6 at 2. He skis for 8 hours on holiday , he does holiday clubs which run 9-430. I am not suggesting necessarily more hours of sitting in a classroom. I am just making the observation that at 3:15 Ds has at least another 1.5 hours of activity left in him as I said incorporating this into the school day would be welcomed by me. (I am fully aware it would need to be paid for).

Oh and at all the local independent schools the after school club including the homework time is OPTIONAL at all ages.

The idea of homework is for it to be done outside of school, independently away from the class teacher.

Children don't need insular lives. They need the time to go and meet friends from outside school, and to do activities away from school.

And they need time to just not be at school.

Maybe if children were not micro managed to such an extreme all the time they wouldn't get bored in long holidays as they would actually know how to occupy themselves!

How about this for an idea. Make the school day longer say 9-4:30 but over four days instead of five.

Make the holidays

1 week in February
2 weeks at Easter - fixed dates instead of the silly moving around it does now. Say early April.
1 week at whit.
5 weeks summer.
2 weeks end of October.
2 weeks at Christmas.

My ds' are exhausted at the end of half term, especially October and I think two weeks the would be a good idea, especially in primary. I also think a four day learning week would be more productive.

I think Gove and co just pick and choose their policies that best support their economic vision. This is about getting parents out to work for longer and using the education system as child care. IMO there is insufficient evidence to show that extending school hours and shortening school holidays is best for pupils.

No dramas with the summer hols being shortened (and others being lengthened) but I really can't see kids being able to hack a 10 hour day.

Unless some of that time is filled with non academic stuff. ie sports, phys and character building stuff. Maybe even DofE or similar.