Gove says lengthen school days and shorten long summer holiday

[juneau]

Here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22202694

I think it's a great idea and I'm sure working parents will welcome it. I also think it's bollocks that teachers need the six week summer break to recharge their batteries. Do they work harder or longer hours than other workers who only get four or five weeks a year then?

Having just endured a bored DS1 over the Easter holidays I think any break of more than two weeks is actually pretty dull for kids and I'm sure poorer kids really suffer from lack of stimulation and/or money to do stuff.

Yes, yes, yes!!! I have a nightmare every year trying to find people to have my children over the holidays and after school.

6 weeks is too long for children. By the time young ones go back its like starting again.

teachers can be home by four if required (to paraphrase handcream) - yes, and other professionals can book a day off, or arrange time to attend their child's first ever sports day (which I will miss in a couple of weeks). I have worked in both teaching and non-teaching roles and I simply didn't need the holidays in the office-based job the way I do in teaching. Won't be the same for all roles, but that was my experience.
As to people's memories of teachers in the past - we had teachers smoke in the classroom, so obviously it's the same today. Job hasa changed massively even in last ten years. People attracted into teaching ten years ago may head elsewhere if they were looking now.

I also have friends who have the same degree, who earn triple what I do and they wouldn't change it for the extra holidays!

Isn't what you describe typical of many public sector workers though Schmaltzing? I work for the NHS, and your pay and conditions sound very familiar - apart from the lunch break which is now 30 minutes but in reality doesn't often exist!

My DH otoh works in private practice. He gets the minimum number of holidays each year, works 12-14 hour days most of the time, and despite 30 years experience in a very technically challenging industry managing staff, clients and budgets does not earn what a head teacher would earn. It's certainly not always the case that private=more money, and he has no union or real employment protection.

Pity the poor families whose kids are being taught by rubbish teachers if they have to spend even longer with the rubbish teachers. However, if you are lucky to have brilliant teachers then surely they will soon crash and burn - how long can adults work before they feel tired out and in need of a holiday or time to get home and relax?

Totally disagree with the idea.

Private schools have longer holidays okay some have longer days too but its not for academia its for sports etc.

If your child does not enjoy school and the children they have to mix with aren't great how is their mental wellbeing going to be?

We miss walks and other family time because of the amount of homework - would longer school days mean no more homework? In which case it might just make me think again!

In the 6 weeks holidays a lot of families use the time to reconnect with family and friends. It is common for people to live a long way from each other now and yes you can skype if you are fortunate enough for all to have skype but again this is sitting down inside and weren't we only told the other week that being outside and social interaction is part of our "wellbeing". We struggle to see grandparents etc a longer day and shorter holidays would have a profound affect on the wellbeing of many members of the family and friends not just immediate family circle.

Our schools have staff (and sometimes other kids) using language/expressions which often make me a longer day would expose them for even longer to such language. At the moment I can justify this exposure as - it takes all sorts to make a world and this is what you are exposed to in the bigger world.

A longer day would surely mean less family interaction as the children would be tired out and in no mood for chat.

Shouldn't this vary with the age of the children? Secondary school days and terms could def. be longer.

Interestingly, private schools have REALLY long holidays but manage to get better results, often via Saturday school. I'm not in favour of it - just an observation.

I think it is a bad idea. The teachers I have encountered work really hard and spend alot of their holidays with preparation work and marking in holiday times. My friend teaches part time and she spends evenings working and always has stuff to prepare in the holidays. I work in education so I do have some idea.

the Summer holidays are lovely for the kids to have a break. Also the roads are so much quieter when the kids are off so you can go out and about without going into panic about attempting to get out of your drive after 2.50 -3.30 etc

another cruel notion from an anti family government. give my children to the state? they have them for long enough already.

He wants us to be like the Asians, hm. They spend their time in school learning facts, facts and more facts. They are having a growning economy, yes, but thats because they have lots of cheap labour.

Is that anothor of Goves seemingly 'overnight' thoughts? I would like to know why the Nothern countries have such a brilliant education system despite starting school much later?

I really think the Saturday school benefits my DS's. They did it from a young age and was the norm for them. People who are saying 'well what if my child doesnt like school'. Well, that needs to be addressed seperately. It doesnt mean that there shouldnt be changes.

I hate this idea. Summertime is the only solid block of time available for me to take my DSD, and eventually my own kids, to visit my family, who all live very far away from us. We would have barely any time with my family at all if this break was cut down to two weeks - unless, of course, we just pulled the kids out of school, which I reckon you would probably see more of if this policy was put into effect. So how will that policy actually promote or enhance education?

I remember my own summer vacations being transitions between one period of my life and the next. It definitely gave me a chance to recharge my batteries. It's not just about burning out while cramming facts, either. In primary and early secondary, I was good at school academically, but not very good at school socially. Getting away from bullies for several weeks can give a kid a chance to build up their inner reserves and try again the following school year.

And in my later secondary years, when things got a lot better socially, I used the summer breaks to work. I was babysitting, working in restaurants, working in amusement parks and working in retail. You can be a useful human being during that period - one does not have to sit around the house watching The Price is Right all day.

As a teacher I think it's a BAD idea, I leave my kid in childcare at 7am and collect at 6 for a normal day, With a longer day when would I see them? Also at least 50% of my 'holidays' are spent working! 50% of my evenings/weekends too come to think of it!

Handcream you are way, way out of date wrt to teachers employment rights. Academies and free schools have no obligation to recognise Union contracts, teachers in all state fnded schools now risk being put on a PIP as soon as the stats don't add up to what is needed on league table terms, or if they even QUESTION a new project and homework system, which, for example, adds an extra 12 hours a week marking and assessing. (real example).

And as for being flexible at weekends - I watch my friend's DH come in at 7pm at night having travelled half an hour home from the school and having left at 7am, with a HUGE pile of books to mark.

its just another way to keep families apart, teachers and workers working for longer and away from their families. no no no we can never go back if they put this through either

The idea that our education is limited to a classroom is wrong-headed. Rather than use public funds to insist that children sit in school for several more days a year, why not put some of that public money to good use for out-of-classroom education? I would be all for public subsidies to 100%-fund more break time ventures like holiday camps, sports lessons, music lessons (lord knows, they are not actually getting these in school where I am just now!), drama lessons, etc. Give low-income families access to these activities - i.e. make them free. Yes, it is a bad thing for kids to be bored and left to it for six weeks. So let's solve that problem and enrich them for real.

I used to teach. There's no way I would ever go back into it as the workload is insane. I get more time off with my 20 days holiday a year than I ever did as a teacher.

That aside, I would like the summer holiday to be shorter as working FT is tricky for childcare and costs a bomb. DH and I have to take 2 weeks off each, with one week overlap so we can actually do the family time thing and the rest is cover and then its off to clubs.

The actual school day is just fine as it is.

He obviously, as usual, hasn't asked parents.
My son, who is not at a private school, does extra-mural activities every day after school except for Tuesdays: tennis lessons, piano lessons, dance and acting classes etc. He couldn't do these, and his homework, if the school day is longer. I don't think that state schools could afford to offer these during the school day.
And holidays! Already summer is the only time when there is a long enough period to go abroad. And the prices reflect that. And my son is tired by the holidays. He needs a break. He is not a little kid who needs me to entertain him. He just needs a rest. He is very high achieving, predicted straight A*/A's at GCSE. Give us a break!! Our country excels at the creative industries. I wish Gove would stop trying to turn us into China. Another poorly thought out policy decision that he will have to U-turn on. Gove-leave the kids alone.

I am a teacher and a mum.
I completely disagree with the length of the school day being extended... when on earth would I plan those extra lessons??? At the moment I work in school from 8-5 and work at home for an hour or so at night. This is comparable to many other full time working parents so it should just stay as it is!

The holidays I could compromise on, I don't think we NEED 6 weeks off, but we need maybe 4 to spend 50% preparing for the next academic year and 50% to spend with our own DCs. The children do benefit from the longer break at this time of year but it could be shorter.

I would expect to be paid for my extra time working, so if this is not something Gove is prepared to shell out for then I will be opposing it. Even though on principle I could be persuaded to compromise on holidays.

I can't see how it would work, and hate the idea.

When would they get to just live?

I probably wouldn't have a problem with older children having an extra hour on their day to do supervised learning in place of homework (bet that would solve a few family arguments!) but holidays are fine as they are!

and what about children who have non academic interests (that may well end up being vocational) and who loathe school and look forward to escaping every day..... and let's not forget they are already going to be made to stay on until 18 anyway!

One size does NOT fit all !

And these are roles that allow you to retire at 60 with a final salary pension

What kind of nonsense is this? Are people really bandying around these 'facts'? Do you actually really believe that handcream or is that just something you overheard in the supermarket? FFS! It beggars belief sometimes! If you're going to enter an argument, at least engage with it enough to be able to base it on actual facts, not incorrect ones.

The pension scheme has changed. Remember the strikes that pissed off the parents so much? That's what it was about. The pension age is 68 and it's no longer based on final salary. Oh and the contribution rate went up too.

cazboldy

Totally agree, I don't think Gove wants us to have any future Olympians, National level competitors in Music, Drama, etc. He wants our dc to be little robots, all doing the same. Anything different won't be tolerated.

Personally, I think its disgusting and will only be beneficial to a minority of parents anyway. I can't see those parents happy at home rushing to go to work, or those with other suitable childcare dropping it because schools have now become child care providers.

I think the H.ed community is set to grow and no way would I consider my dd joining secondary education within the system if this goes ahead.

I could name off the top of my head a vast array of roles teachers can and do do after teaching but I can't be bothered frankly.

Duchesse Please would you because DH wants to leave teaching and knock Gove's head off but isn't sure what to do. There are so many jobs out there, he doesn't know which one to choose.

Seriously could we ever compete with the Asians in busines with our Health and Safety and working standards - we just cant. Perhaps in an effort to "compete with the Asians" we should return out factories to the working conditions they used to have, that would put us on an even footing.

I like the way the "pro" change people are ignoring the stats on childhood depression in the countries with longer hours.

If my son hasnt eaten by 5.00 I seriously wouldnt want to be the teacher in charge of him, he would probably take off someone head. I'd get them both home later tired and hungry and we would spend our nice family evening shouting at each other.

During the holidays my children have seen volcanoes, experienced an earthquake, had a dolphin swim next to our boat. They have been on a trip in Greece learning about the different cultures who developed Kefalonia including the British Army who built their road. Learning doesnt only happen in the classroom it happens through living an outside life too.

I was on the website yesterday where it said that children had to learn to take risks to an extent in order to develop - how would being in a classroom and being told what to do, when to speak and how to think for the majority of the day be what is best for them? At what point would they be allowed to take calculated risks and develop as individuals?

If my children were starting their education and this scheme were to come in I would seriously consider home educating.

I would not be against reconfiguring the timings of the existing holidays - particularly to earlier in the year - a few 3/4 week holidays could work but not sure about them being at the tail end of the year.

Again I would hope they would consult with all of the business which constitute the British holiday industry to ensure it would have no detrimental effect as, for example campsites/holiday parks are often closed October to April - I would imagine that spreading the breaks would possibly make it harder for them to maintain sufficient staffing levels.