Gove says lengthen school days and shorten long summer holiday

[juneau]

Here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22202694

I think it's a great idea and I'm sure working parents will welcome it. I also think it's bollocks that teachers need the six week summer break to recharge their batteries. Do they work harder or longer hours than other workers who only get four or five weeks a year then?

Having just endured a bored DS1 over the Easter holidays I think any break of more than two weeks is actually pretty dull for kids and I'm sure poorer kids really suffer from lack of stimulation and/or money to do stuff.

Avril.

Ok, some people need childcare thats fair enough. But making the school day longer is not really fair and is discriminatory against anybody who wouldn't need the childcare facility, including working parents who share childcare between themselves, or extended family.
Whatever is decided has no bearing on my family thank God, but it doesn't mean I am not concerned for friends and family.

dolly many parents who work have been on this thread have said they don't support this idea.

School us no it childcare, yes there needs to be better child care provision for working parents but not longer school hours children need a break.

We are already out of the house from 8sm-4pm with the school run and my eldest is out from 7:30-4pm they do not need s longer day.

We need to look at what is best for children.

As others gave said many countries have LONGER school holidays not shorter.

Sadly dolly, I don't think that's what Gove has in mind!

He's misguided though. Independent schools have longer holidays, not shorter ones, and huge numbers top jobs are filled by people that went to fee-paying schools, far more than the proportion of people that actually go to those schools, so their educational standards must be reasonable.

I really think children need more downtime, not less in the majority of cases sadly. Mine were exhausted at Easter, and needed their holiday just to rest and unwind... they had nearly 3 weeks off, and it benefited them so much.

morethan whatever is decided has no bearing on my family either actually!

That doesn't mean I don't care about what happens to the other 93% of children in this country.

You are mistaken when you say the majority of parents do not need to work btw, I can't remember the latest figures off the top of my head, but by far the majority of parents do work.

The private schools around here have massively longer holidays.

I do agree childcare needs to be better but I think but it needs to be employer based for those who DO need it rather than a blanket decision made for those of us who dont.

I thought my mortgage would be paid off and Id be spending many weeks a year in sunnier climes - I had children and scaled back my expectations (camping and 7 years on the morgage to go!). I certainly couldnt afford the extra bill Dolly was talking about for childcare I dont actually need.

There have been many reasons given on this thread for opposing it:

The tourist industry
Children need a break - yes they do. A 4 week break is way long enough for kids, they miss their friends and most like school

Teachers work long hours and need a break -yes they do. Bit 13 weeks though. If the school year wasn't crammed into the terms we have now, the teachers wouldn't have to work long hours
Most parents don't work so they like the holidays - this can't even be a real reason!
Teachers don't get paid holidays - no but Teachers get paid 6.5 hours per day. They get paid a salary so their wage is split over 12 months bur they do not receive holiday pay. So in those 13 weeks they are presumably being paid for 6.5 hrs a day? if I'm wrong please tell me as that's how it reads to me

The way the economy is you can't ignore that people have to work.
Sometimes things do need to change. Perhaps teachers should be paid for the hours they do, including overtime. But not the holidays over the 4 weeks we all get?

Avril.

I said the majority of parents aren't workers and also that out of these workers many don't need childcare, as they use extended family, work school hours, share between parents.

Its not 93% of children, I never mentioned this.

The implications of the school day being longer and shorter holidays will impact on more than schools and childcare.

I have to pay for childcare because there are 13 weeks holiday
If they were shorter I wouldn't need it
I'm not asking teachers to provide childcare

Dolly it seems to me that making your children's father contribute would be a useful thing for the government to do. Presumably he is receiving some sort of welfare at the moment and it must be galling for you to see him sitting back while you provide for your children and get nothing back from the government either. Either find a way to make fathers contribute or raise thresholds to at least allow for childcare benefits. It is unjust that you are getting the short end of the stick to the extent that you are and I know you are not the only one out there in your position.

Most of the people I work with work much longer hours, unpaid because their careers depend on it, without 13 weeks holiday

You can't compare teachers with others because teachers are dealing with children, who are not really able to put in an 8 to 5 learning day and gain anything from it. Putting in longer hours would be a waste of time.

If schools open at 8am instead of 9am and stay open until 530pm, teachers I know would have to be in work from 630am until at least 630pm. There would still be (at least) the same amount of evening and weekend work to do and the workload is plenty big enough as it is. They would never see their children and those children would need extended childcare above whatever schools offer.

When you say the majority of parents aren't working Avril, why is that?
Are they on benefits?
Where do you live?

Math that is another thread entirely! Of course I would've to seemy Fwex contribute, or even have them in the holidays!

Schools where year round class is the norm have periodic breaks during the year that cause just as many headaches for parents who are trying to combine parenthood with work. It is hard to find something for children to do during the third week of March, for instance, or to find childcare for a week at a stretch.

I wonder when a government will put its money where its mouth is on the topic of family values, importance of the home, importance of parents doing their best, blah blah, and force employers to facilitate the parenting role of their employees.

Dolly.

Teachers aren't paid during holidays, they don't even get paid enough for the hours they do work.
I can't be bothered explaining it because it can get complex, but there are several threads on here about it.

I think that childcare for working parents needs to be improved, but not through education. Perhaps it should be compulsory for schools to allow childcare providers to use the facilities before school, after and during the holidays. Then parents could use the service if they required it.
If it wasn't part of the education system those not using it wouldnt miss out. It wouldn't be fair for little Johnny to turn up at normal 9am time to be told you've missed maths and English.

Sadly those in government who can make decisions are so far removed from the reality of all of the points of view on this thread, that we getpicies that suit no-one

*policies
Phone making a FOOL of me

Lots of parents work but for many parents i know a longer school day wouldnt actually help their childcare isssues, i am thinking hcp etc. My own dps hours include evenings, nights, wkends etc just like many nurses, midwives, drs. Many other jobs also are not 9-5 so makung the school day fit with those 9-5 hours would only help some parents anyway.

The reality is if you have children and work you need childcare. School is not childcare, despite how many view it as such. Yes we need good quality affordable childcare. We do not need our children to have a longer school day.

After school activities etc would all suffer as would many areas of the economy.

Children need a break and variety, and booking holidays would be a nightmare, even more expensive! My dp struggles to get any time off during school holidays as it is. His job would be harder if the school holidays were shorter.

Arent there record numbers of teachers suffering burn out and leaving within five yrs of starting? This proposal would only increase that.

-dolly - I didn't say that, I said the majority of parents do work! Morethan said the majority don't.

Morethan- the 93% I referred to is the 93% of children educated in the state system in UK. I don't mean 93% of children have parents that work; I think it's more like 60% have both parents working, can't remember what % for lone parent households.

My older DDs friends are not at her school, she needs the holidays to see them. When she was younger she needed them to escape those who bullied her too.

DD2 does miss her school friends a bit in the holidays, but it's nice to have them round and get to know them and it's good for Y7's to learn how to make arrangements between themselves and their parents.

DD2 also has friends at other schools she likes to see in the holidays.

Four weeks simply won't work one family goes away the first week the other the second, it's just a recipe for tears and tantrums.

Then then are people with younger DCs in state primaries and older DCs at private secondaries? This is very common round here and the older ones holidays cause enough grief already.

But most of all there is more to learning than what you do in school. DD1 has a time consuming active hobby in Summer and technical interests all year round. She also sings in various groups.

DD2 dances and does sporty things in and out of school.

Mr Gove this nonsense won't effect you and yours. You can send your DCs to private schools and maybe they would benefit some working families with no imagination and no interests outside work, but once again like the CB changes you are upsetting you key supporters. The people who voted for you.

Me Gove and the rest of you stop being utter fucking idiots and think.

I live in an area with loads of stay at home mums, and dads who work shifts, taxi drivers, post office depot, bus driver, i dont see how it would help them. they stay home as they wouldnt be better of at work and there are nit enough childcare places anyway.

personally if this happened i would take my kids out of school.

More family friendly hours ...... what a load of tosh. When do they expect the family to actually see each other! If this happens, I'm moving to a proper family friendly country that consider the needs of children as opposed to getting Mothers back to work. English schooling hours are already unnecessarily long.

Sorry to be controversial but if you need to work every hour under the sun perhaps, having children wasn't the best lifestyle choice.

Again I feel like I am living on a different planet "when would families see each other?" As far as I can tell Gove is suggesting another couple of hours of school (if that). Everyone would still be home by 6. What it suggests to me is more family friendly as the hours between 315-6 wouldn't be spent driving to various clubs/sporting events and then persuading reluctant children to do their homework. They would come back at 6 ready for a family meal and a chat about their day.

Wish

everybody wouldn't be home by 6.

Staff meetings are 60 + minutes long, the moderation that I did last night in my department was 2 hours long.
Marking takes as long as it takes.

Dolly you are wrong that teachers don't get paid for 6.5 hours per day during the holidays. Teachers are paid to work a set number of hours over the year. This is 1265 hours per year. They work 195 days of the year. 1265/195 = 6.4. Hence they are only paid for the time they are actually teaching in school. They do not get paid for the hours they put in before/after school, weekends, work during holidays etc. Yes they get a wage during the holidays but their salary is split into 12 monthly payments. So if the government want to increase the length of the day, they must increase the pay, if they want to shorten the holidays then they must pay the teachers to work these additional weeks. They would also have to pay TA's to stay on, support staff for special needs children and welfare staff as children would need another meal at school. Imagine the cost to the country. Dolly how do you suggest we fund all this extra pay we would need? Raise taxes? Put an education tax on parents to fund the extra? Those who pay for childcare now use that money? Pull it out of the bottomless pit some people think we have?

It doesn't matter how many times it is stated on MN, people still do not understand teacher's pay- they are NOT paid for the holidays. The country simply can't afford shorter holidays or longer hours.