Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Bedroom tax will be costly disaster, says housing chief

999 replies

vivizone · 31/03/2013 06:51

I don't understand how they can implement it. When a council tenant signs the tenancy agreement, if bedroom tax is not mentioned, is it not illegal to implement it at a later date?

I don't see how it is enforceable. Let's say a tenant refuses to pay/can't pay. They then get evicted - wouldn't the council still be obliged to house them after eviction, especially if they have children?

The whole thing is a mess. Why so many changes all at the same time?!

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/30/bedroom-tax-disaster-housing-chief

Cost-cutting policy will push up benefit bill, cause social disruption and create widespread misery, say critics

Ministers came under new fire over benefit cuts last night as the independent body representing 1,200 English housing associations described the controversial bedroom tax as bad policy and bad economics that risks pushing up the £23bn annual housing benefit bill.

David Orr, chief executive of the National Housing Federation, said the tax would harm the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. It comes into force this week alongside a range of other tax and benefit changes.

"The bedroom tax is one of these once-in-a-generation decisions that is wrong in every respect," he said. "It's bad policy, it's bad economics, it's bad for hundreds of thousands of ordinary people whose lives will be made difficult for no benefit ? and I think it's about to become profoundly bad politics."

His intervention came as opponents launched nationwide protests against the tax, which will hit 660,000 households with each losing an estimated average of £14 a week.

Crowds gathered in London's Trafalgar Square yesterday to protest against the measure, and simultaneous protests were being held in towns and cities across the UK. One protester, Sue Carter, 58, from Waltham Forest, told the Observer: "I'm a working single parent with a tiny boxroom and now I'm faced with the choice between food, heat or paying the bedroom tax. People have looked after their homes, improved them ? why should they be turfed out?"

Under the scheme, which is introduced tomorrow, people in social housing with one spare bedroom will have their housing benefit cut by 14%, while those with two or more unoccupied rooms will see it slashed by 25%.

Ministers say the tax, which David Cameron calls the "spare room subsidy", will encourage people to move to smaller properties and save around £480m a year from the spiralling housing benefit bill. But critics such as the National Housing Federation (NHF) argue that as well as causing social disruption, the move risks increasing costs to taxpayers because a shortage of smaller social housing properties may force many people to downsize into the more expensive private rented sector.

The federation's warnings came as charities said the combination of benefit cuts and tax rises coming in from this week will amount to a £2.3bn hit on family finances.

Labour said analysis of official figures showed average families would be £891 worse off in the new tax year as the changes ? including those to tax credits and housing benefits ? begin to bite.

Research by the NHF says that while there are currently 180,000 households that are "underoccupying two-bedroom homes", there are far fewer smaller properties in the social housing sector available to move into. Last year only 85,000 one-bedroom homes became available. The federation has calculated that if all those available places were taken up by people moving as a result of the "bedroom tax", the remaining 95,000 households would be faced with the choice of staying put and taking a cut in income, or renting a home in the private sector.

If all 95,000 moved into the private sector, it says the cost of housing benefit would increase by £143m, and by millions more if others among the remaining 480,000 affected chose to rent privately.

As well as the move on spare bedrooms, council tax benefit will be replaced from this week by a new system that will be run by English local authorities but on 10% less funding. Pensioners will be protected under the changes but, as a result, it is feared there will be a bigger burden on poor working-age adults. Restrictions on the uprating of a number of welfare payments will also hit millions of households, homelessness charity Crisis has warned.

Chief executive Leslie Morphy said: "Our poorest households face a bleak April as they struggle to budget for all these cuts coming at once. People are already cutting back on the essentials of food and heating but there is only so much they can do.

"The result will be misery ? cold rooms, longer queues at food banks, broken families, missed rent payments and yet more people facing homelessness ? devastating for those directly affected, but bad for us all."

A Department for Work and Pensions spokesman said: "Our welfare reforms will improve the lives of some of the poorest families in our communities, with universal credit simplifying the complex myriad of benefits and making three million people better off. And by next year, we will have taken two million of the lowest earners out of paying tax altogether."

Crisis argues that homelessness is set to rise dramatically. This winter has already seen a rise of 31% in the numbers of rough sleepers across the country and a 20% rise in people seeking help with homelessness from their local authority in the past two years, according to Crisis.

ChartiesCharities are also concerned that the government-funded network of homelessness advisers in England is to be scrapped. The team of regional advisers and rough sleeper and youth specialists which have provided councils with expert guidance on meeting statutory homelessness duties since 2007 will be disbanded just as the bedroom tax comes in. Also being scrapped are the crisis loans and community care grants which provided a lifeline for people in financial crisis who needed essentials when moving to a new home.

Shadow chancellor Ed Balls said: "This is the week when the whole country will see whose side David Cameron and George Osborne are really on and who is paying the price for their economic failure."

OP posts:
FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 16:52

oh and the conservatives are not as unpopular as they should be at this point on the economic cycle.

infamouspoo · 01/04/2013 16:53

'And it is VERY easy to become self-employed here, much easier than other European countries. So no excuses, I'm afraid.'

I have no idea what it is like in other European countries but its a frigging nightmare here. We are self employed (and get top up benefits). I'm getting stessed just thinking about the paperwork and regulations. I have friends attempting to set up businesses and meeting obstacles at every turn and making very little despite working every hour initially. Then there's getting the work in. Or, in our case, hoping people have enough to buy your product or your agent is marketing the damn thing or Amazon havent stashed it in a warehouse with the words 'sorry, not in stock' for fucking months on their page.
Personally I'd rather work for someone with a steady income and a pension.

Dawndonna · 01/04/2013 16:53

Ten savings
Seven of which affect the poor, oh and do not the lovely tax cut for those at the top of the pile.

infamouspoo · 01/04/2013 16:58

Two-thirds of the people hit by the bedroom tax are disabled. Thats despite Cameron saying they would be exempt. Thats just wrong.

pollypandemonium · 01/04/2013 17:19

infamous I agree it is a nightmare being properly self-employed in terms of tax, insurance and NI.

Xenia · 01/04/2013 17:22

The UK has very very simple systems to set up a business - you just write to HMRC. Other countries require you to obtain approvals etc. The big issue in the UK is not state regulation and formalities for setting up as self employed - it is the benefits trap. If you may just make a little bit of money if you lose your benefits in the mean time having declared that your life is shot to pieces. The state has never solved this problems.

Iain Duncan Smith is trying to make this better under universal credit so that I think you can work self employed for a year before the benefits are affected or something similar to try to get round the problem of those earning just a bit from a new business having been on income support and housing benefit.

It is dead easy though to tell HMRC you are self employed and pay the tax/NI which you only pay once you earn more than about £7k a year NI and over about £9k as regards the tax.

MiniTheMinx · 01/04/2013 17:24

You pay N.I what ever your earnings Xenia.

IneedAsockamnesty · 01/04/2013 17:27

Coconuts.

They did not lie to you,that was what the first lot of info sheets that many LA's got sent said.

And back to under occupancy.

The largest group of under occupiers are pensioners who are exempt from this change.
The second largest group of under occupiers are none HB claimants who are exempt.

IneedAsockamnesty · 01/04/2013 17:29

Mini, you don't you only pay ni from wages once you earn the equivalent of nmw x 17 per week

rhondajean · 01/04/2013 17:37

I've been out with my kids all day so I haven't managed to catch up with everything that's been said and I'm returning to an earlier point but...

Whoever said they only get nhs and education out of their tax? Did you forget the police, fire service, military, the subsidised transport network/roads, street lighting, the many local government services in each area (council tax hardly scrapes the surface of paying for them), etc etc? And that's just off the top of my head!

Around 70 percent of people in the uk are net takers from the system rather than net contributors, although me and DH work full time I'm certain with two children in full time education we probably are right now, and I'm also certain quite a few of the others who come onto threads like this and bleat about how their taxes pay to keep the feckless poor going in goats and luxury are net takers.

But it's easi to hit the poorest and most disenfranchised in society who have the least power to come back and hit back, and also hitting them makes those who don't relieve their personal government handout in hard cash but in services feel better about themselves.

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 17:42

dawndonna for 12.5 years under Labour the very top tax rate was 40%. They raised it to 50% months before they knew they would lose the election. The coalition has dropped it to 5% higher than it ever was under Labour.

Whoever said more money is spent on the NHS than on welfare couldn't be more wrong. The welfare bill is substantially higher than education, the NHS and defence.
The pot is finite so every penny spent on paying for someone who chooses not to make the effort to find a job is a penny off the NHS or your children's education. I know which I prefer.

JustinBsMum · 01/04/2013 17:42

They can't hit the pensioners right now as it would effect votes.

However, having brought in this ruling there is a chance that after the next election whoever is in gov will say 'not fair only to target the poor, the pensioners must also be included in this' and apply it to pensioners too.

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 17:42

least power to come back and hit back

if MN comments (on this thread and others) is anything to go by, those unhappy with the current changes seem happy to blame pensioners and immigrants.

just sayin.....

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 17:43

surely most pensioners in social housing are not natural tory voters...

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 17:47

Indeed faster. But why let that little fact get in the way of leftie rhetoric Grin

FasterStronger · 01/04/2013 17:50

skinny - yep & they are all in it together, unless they can find someone else to blame...

of course what is really interesting is that people on higher incomes fund the welfare state so instead of being evil, in reality they pay for a more equal society.

but like you say why let that little facts get in the way of leftie rhetoric Grin

IneedAsockamnesty · 01/04/2013 17:50

How is it leftie rhetoric if its a fact.

rhondajean · 01/04/2013 17:52

www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/year_spending_2013UKbn_12bc1n_40#ukgs302

Here is a link showing welfare spending this year is lower than pensions or health care spending.

Education is lower, but still massive.

JustinBsMum · 01/04/2013 17:52

surely most pensioners in social housing are not natural tory voters

Probably true. Perhaps it is to avoid 'shock horror homeless 90 year old' headlines.

skinnywitch · 01/04/2013 17:54

What's a fact, sock?

rhondajean · 01/04/2013 17:55

Anyone who is actually interested in what makes a better society for everyone may be interested in reading a book called the spirit level. I will try to find a synopsis.

And no, don't be so disingenuous as to try to say we are blaming pensioners and immigrants, people have pointed out pensioners will not be affected by this particular piece of policy, not that they are at fault Hmm

Mrsdavidcaruso · 01/04/2013 17:55

I have already said that Faster - my Dad belonged to generation where working class people very rarely bought their own homes he has been a labour voter all his life.

IneedAsockamnesty · 01/04/2013 17:55

Who the largest groups of under occupiers are,or did you forget that tats what we are trying to talk about in between all your benefit bashing work shy nonsense posts.

Darkesteyes · 01/04/2013 17:59

XeniaMon 01-Apr-13 16:37:21

Plenty of those on benefits in theory don't work but have jobs for cash in hand. They aren't all idle. Some make a career of milking the benefits system.

Really Xenia Thats not what you were saying last year! Give me a minute or two....

Darkesteyes · 01/04/2013 18:01

THIS is what you were saying last year Xenia so which is it??!!

XeniaThu 13-Sep-12 08:48:58
SOme people will always be poor and make up excuses and say impossible. Others get on with things and improve their lives. I hope we can remain a country where there are sufficient people with the personal values to make something better of themselves whatever it take. I accept and have said on iother threads that there is a problem once you start earning in a new business in coming off benefits althoug the new single benefit is going to make it easier - there was a letter in the Times about it last week - you can work for a year to get your self employed business going so things are imjproving thanks to this Government.

Just look at those who have moved here from abroad to see what is possible. I advise them all the time. They are wonderful, hard workers etc I hvae so much more in common with them than the fat lumpen negative white benefit claimants of the UK.

Swipe left for the next trending thread