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A fourteen year old girl has been killed...

437 replies

JustGiveMeFiveMinutes · 27/03/2013 10:42

...mauled to death by four dogs.

RIP

OP posts:
SnuffleTheDog · 28/03/2013 14:34

It could be argued that a dog/pet is a necessity for some people.

For a long while my dog was the only reason I got up in the morning. Without her I would have sank into a very deep pit of depression and I honestly cant say if I would have got myself out of it.

So my dog is/was actually a necessity at that time.

higgle · 28/03/2013 14:35

Indeed Snuffle, I cuddled my old Butch up last night and cried to think anyone would hate him or be frightened of him because of his breed. I think it is the only breed of dog I will ever own too because I feel so sorry for the poor homeless ones, and I know because of all this nonsense about them there will be even more needing homes too.

Yes, the farting is awesome, but Greyhound owners tell me the same.

rubyrubyruby · 28/03/2013 14:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SnuffleTheDog · 28/03/2013 14:54

I know Higgle, makes me very sad to think some of them might be ditched by worried owners. In a way they would be better off, if their owner is so quick to get rid when it hasn't even done anything wrong they are probably the type who would get rid of their dog if it walked away rather than wag its tail happily after llittle Tarquin pulled on its ears or some other bollocky reason (I have actually heard of someone getting rid of their dog when their baby pulled its tail and it ran off, apparantly a good family dog should have just sat there Hmm )

maisiejoe123 · 28/03/2013 15:00

How many of us guessed that the owners would be a feckless woman like this who has now gone into hiding. What stops her getting another few dogs when this has died down.

I am sure she is sorry about what has happened. I think most people could have guessed that the 'owner' of these dogs would be someone like this.

She makes me feel sick.

Going forward what can be done about this.

SnuffleTheDog · 28/03/2013 15:11

Its always a feckless owner.

Which is why the owners need tackling. Calling for banning of breeds is far too simplistic and if that is the laughable solution the government come up with then we, as intelligent people, should absolutely not accept it as its just paying lip service to a few, and just shoves the problem on to another breed.

Dog licensing, micro chipping, hefty fines that are actually enforced, being made to report in to local police station on a daily basis, and charges of manslaughter will be far more reaching than just "ban the breed".

FigSolution · 28/03/2013 15:18

Jokey comments about dog farts on a thread about a child that has been mauled to death is extremely poor form.

The solution to the problem is to make dog breeding and dog ownership considerably more difficult and considerably more expensive.

Much more legal responsibility should be placed on breeders of all breeds and cross breeds.
Compulsory home checks of all prospective owners, with detailed questioning of the prospective owners knowledge of the breed, exercise and training requirements etc.
Compulsory microchipping of all puppies before they leave.
Legal documentation that puppies to be returned to breeder if they are unable to be looked after and/or if a dog warden confiscates the dog and deems the owner to be unsuitable to continue to look after it.
Compulsory health testing of sire and dam.
Spectacularly large fines and removal of dog breeding licence if above not adhered to.
All these costs to be passed on to the prospective buyer.

For dog owners.
Mandatory written exam pre dog ownership.
Additional breed specific sections, particularly relevant for breeds with specialist needs (eg Northern Breeds) or training requirements.
Compulsory attendance at dog training.
On the spot checks and fines for things such as reliable recall in a public place, not carrying poo bags, antisocial behaviour (fairly easy to carry out if all dogs are microchipped).
(Large) annual dog tax to pay for wardens and administration of licence.

Owning a dog is way too easy and way too cheap in the UK. Make it difficult and expensive, then you will at least reduce the opportunities for tragic incidents such as this being repeated.

ChocoLatToBeLickedByMe · 28/03/2013 15:22

I was reading this yesterday
(WARNING: don't look if squeamish (it shows photos of dog attack injuries))

I wasn't surprised to see that there were several involving Border Collies. Out of my 3 dogs I trust my collie the least, although she has never shown any aggression to anybody. I presume it is due to them being bred to react quickly to movement although they shouldn't really be reacting by savaging the sheep.

Muzzling dogs wouldn't have helped Jade as IIRC even the dangerous dogs act only enforced muzzling when out of your private property. Although the act seems completely pointless as Pitbulls are still in the UK and in theory if they all had been neutered when the law was enforced then there shouldn't be any, unless of course they are all 23 years old

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 28/03/2013 15:23

In my dreams, I live in a completely dog free world. I hate them all.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 28/03/2013 15:23

How awful Sad
RIP
I have a DD the same age

seeker · 28/03/2013 15:33

What is it about dogs that makes people take leave of their senses? I am a typical mad cat woman- but even I can tell the difference between a cat and a person.......

SnuffleTheDog · 28/03/2013 15:35

Fig - comments about dogs in general and their behaviour and things they do are bound to crop up on a thread where total banning of dogs/certain dogs is discussed. It doesnt detract from the tragedy of what has happened.

SnuffleTheDog · 28/03/2013 15:37

I agree owning a dog is far too easy, you should have seen the list of questions I was asked at PAH when I went in to buy a GOLDFISH.

I actually came out without one as I didnt pass their test Hmm

curryeater · 28/03/2013 15:47

Snuffle, you probably said "yes" to "does this fish have a vote?"

curryeater · 28/03/2013 15:48

To be fair, maybe it was a trick question - maybe they said "what is the legal voting age for fishes?" and you said "18" and they said "maybe keeping an animal is not for you, dear" while making twirling motions with their fingers beside their temples

higgle · 28/03/2013 15:50

Fig - If you look at the situation with puppy farming - a major contribution to the problem with excess numbers of dogs that cannot be homed - and see how government struggles to control even this I think you proposals, laudable as some of them are, would be unworkable. There really should be a total ban on Staffie breeding, except for exceptional show standard dogs maybe for a while to get the numbers down. The woman in this cas bred what looked to be a lsrgish litter she sold on Facebook, there are thousands for sale on the internet puppy sales sites and clearly not enough homes for them. Accountability by way of registration of dogs and chipping for all is a good start. I don't think it is the "cheapness" of dogs that is a problem, a lot of these irresponsible owners seem to pay a lot for them and still go on to be irresponsible.

Moominsarehippos · 28/03/2013 15:51

Border collies are beautiful and intelligent beasts - and people like them because of this. They are also rather highly strung and need hours of exercise (or they go batshit crazy), which is why farmers tend to keep them only if they are working dogs and not pets.

I don't want dogs banned, but not do I think that any Tom, Dick or Harriet who 'wants' one can just have one, no questions asked, no proof of ability/knowledge of how to look after one.

No-one admits to being a feckless dog owner, so there need to be rules, and certainly no-one should be able to to just set thenselves up as a breeder with no training or knowledge.

There should also be rules about dog poo (yuk) and keeping animals under control. Our park has had loads of brids mauled by dogs - there is a sign saying 'keep your dog on a lead' but some twats still throw balls and sticks into the lake for their dogs to retrieve (scattering swans, geese and ducks as they go). Mutts come and sick their hooters into your picnic with the twatty owner either ignoring it or saying 'he's only being friendly...' as you throw your dog-snot sandwich in the bin. Don't get me started on dog-walkers!

Many cannot for the life of them believe that anyone does not think that their dog is the bestest, most loveliest and desireable creature to grace Gods earth (like some parents with their kids). I even saw one stroppy cow telling a tourist to 'bugger orf back home' when he told her off after her dog bounced up onto a little girl and she had hysterics (really terrified), then licked her brother's face (about 2 years old) and he started crying too.

SnuffleTheDog · 28/03/2013 15:55

Why would i say yes to that?

Oh you were being funny :)

D0oinMeCleanin · 28/03/2013 16:01

Snuffle, you are probably an irresponsible fish owner, like me. I made the mistake of asking about dd2's BiOrb and stocking suggestions on a fish keeping website once.

14 pages later I had fairly comprehensively reached the conclusion that a lot of people do not like BiOrbs, not even free ones Grin

Luckily the man in the local aquatics shop was much more helpful.

SnuffleTheDog · 28/03/2013 16:11

I decided not to bother with the fish in the end. The sales guy put me off a bit when he asked some bollocks about voting ages for fish. I thought they only lived for a year or two.

FigSolution · 28/03/2013 16:18

Higgle I reckon most of my proposals are perfectly workable if the right amount of money is thrown at them. Money that would come from an annual dog tax. Start by breeders microchipping puppies and then owners from the day they pick up the dog being 'attached' to that chip and you have a nice system to tax that owner annually.

The cost of buying a dog is a drop in the ocean compared to the lifetime costs of good quality food, vets bills, insurance, training and kennelling, as any responsible dog owner knows.

TheRealFellatio · 28/03/2013 16:24

I am not a fan of Staffordshire Bull Terriers at all - don't see the appeal of them myself, and I personally would never choose to own any dog whose breed was originally developed for fighting or baiting, and I question the motives or judgement of anyone who does. However, I am aware that they have been a very popular breed for years with very little bad press at all - until they became the latest status dog of choice for knuckle draggers and people with violent/criminal tendencies.

The trouble is, what most of these people really wanted were pit bulls, but a) they are banned, and b) they were pretty hard to come by. Breeding more muscular, more aggressive strains of SBT has been a way to emulate them for many.

But breeders have worked on crossing Pit Bulls with all/any of the other bull terrier breeds, also mastiffs, and American Bulldogs and have come up with all sorts of smoke and mirrors schemes to basically sell dogs that are 9/10ths pit bull, or pit bull crossed with staffs, or mastiffs, cane crosses etc, to get the biggest, baddest dogs, chockful of fighting genes, that they can produce, but always managing to dodge regulation and the dangerous dogs act, by saying they are not 'pit bull types', or banned breeds, but 'staffies' or bull mastiffs. And they are selling dogs which are to all intents and purposes Pit Bulls under code names like 'American Guard Dogs' etc. The internet is full of them if you know what to look for.

Certainly Bull Mastiffs are no angels, despite what their devoted owners will tell you. The people I have known who have kept BMs have been the sort of people you don't want to accidentally bump into in the pub iykwim, so let's say it's no coincidence they don't own poodles.

It's extremely hard to be exactly sure what breed some of these dogs are, or are not. And my guess it that hundreds of thousands of dogs are going under the title of 'Staffie' in this country when actually, they are not pure Staffie at all. They are at least part banned breed, and the owners know it, but won't admit it. But there is little doubt they have been breed to be strong, brave, intimidating and fiercely loyal. In other words, weapon dogs that they think will give them added gravitas.

I have only ever known of three people in my aquaintance to be attacked and injured by dogs.

One was about thirty years ago - my then boyfriend's aunt took on a pit bull type/American Bulldog puppy from a rescue. This was before they were very well known, and before the ban. She had to have it destroyed at about a year old when it attacked her and she ended up with a face full of stitches and not much top lip left.

The second was a friend's 2 year old nephew. They went on holiday and stayed in a hotel where the owner's dog was a Bull Mastiff. It savaged the child in a totally unprovoked attack as the family all sat eating a meal in the hotel garden. The child underwent emergency surgery and the dog was destroyed.

The third was my friend's daughter who owned an Akita. Despite being trained in dog handling and animal behaviour, it still attacked her and she had to have it destroyed.

I've seen the photos of the dogs in this recent attack and not one of those dogs looked like an actual Staffordshire bull terrier to me. Two were bull mastiffs and the others looked to be of a pit bull type. Although they may have 'officially' been staffie as far as the owner was concerned. Hmm

Whilst I agree that the problem lies probably more in nurture than in nature, I do think that some breeds are more predisposed to attacking and fighting than others, and when under stress or in a pack, are more likely to revert to type. Especially if they have been poorly handled by fuckwit owners. And no-one will ever convince me otherwise.

I agree that any breed^ has the potential to turn nasty and get a bad reputation en masse, if enough irresponsible, dim, or downright nasty people buy them. I agree with what DoinMeCleanin said upthread - I think the next status dog to go bad will be the Husky, Malamute or Akita. And it's no good saying 'oh but daschunds and chiahuahuas and Jack Russells are really unpredictable and aggressive - yes I believe they can be, but they are about this > < big, so.... Confused

But I also think that until macho, wannabe gangstas with small dicks and even smaller brains want to start dragging Golden Retrievers or Cocker Spaniels around with them while they patrol their manor, (or is it hood these days?) we are ALWAYS going to see a disproportionate number of attacks by Staffies, Staffy-crosses, pit bull crosses, Bull mastiffs, or any other breed that was originally bred with fighting or baiting in mind. It is not a coincidence that the wrong kind of people pick these dogs, is it?

Moominsarehippos · 28/03/2013 16:29

Jack Russels can be a bit bitey - we had some - but I think smaller breeds can be snappy because people just don't train them properly. Where they may take a larger breed more seriously, a small dog that you can pick up with one hand is probably seen as being easier to control, so aren't taken to classes.

Cheddars · 28/03/2013 16:43

Good post TheRealFellatio.

And this bit It's extremely hard to be exactly sure what breed some of these dogs are, or are not. And my guess it that hundreds of thousands of dogs are going under the title of 'Staffie' in this country when actually, they are not pure Staffie at all. They are at least part banned breed...

is the reason I won't choose a rescue Staffie to be homed with my children. Sad

needastrongone · 28/03/2013 16:45

Curryeater - confused Smile One post you say that you would never be cruel to an animal and I believe you. However, another post you suggest them being put down? Not sure!

TheRealFellatio - good post. Although I am a convert to dogs recently (looks at Spaniel puppy asleep under my kitchen table after romping through the woods with a Cocker Spaniel for 90 minutes this afternoon), we did choose a breed that was known to be a good family breed. he has given us so much more than we could ever envisage, despite the commitment and the inevitable mud! He's pathetic really and would never survive in the wild I am sure, given he was the runt of the litter and has no prey drive whatsoever, but I still have the caveat that you never fully know.

He's just not 'ard enough and doesn't look the part. I did Google 'Spaniel attacks' and didn't get a lot back, not that there will be NONE.

I passionately hate cats, I really do. They poo in our garden as we are the only ones without a cat round here, we are forever digging or picking up cat poo. Not nice, rather like standing in dog poo on a path, except all the dogs in the vicinity don't come and poo in my garden Smile Ironically, I have trained the dog to 'go' in a field, way way off the path, which is perfectly possible with training! I respect other peoples love of the animal though, and wouldn't think it acceptable to suggest a blanket ban, as some have on here.