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Raid on bank accounts in Cyprus

357 replies

MrsJREwing · 17/03/2013 03:46

Nearly 10% of savings will be taxed from private individuals savings, to save the banks.

OP posts:
MiniTheMinx · 21/03/2013 21:56

I think there are money interests on both sides of that confusion.

claig · 21/03/2013 22:13

Blimey, it gets even more complicated.
It is not only the EU and Russia who are vying for control of the Greek and Cypriot gas fields and the Greek oil fields, but it seems that America may be another player too.

'Geithner's name has cropped up many times recently in the excellent blog by John Ward, the Slog, with speculation that the U.S. is planning to ride to the rescue of Greece in the event of a split with the Troika, in order to facilitate U.S. desires to grab the rights to Greece's rich oil and gas deposits. Perhaps Geithner's creative, dynamic solution is to exploit Greece's need for cash, with the U.S. desire for control of yet more oil reserves.'

...

'American interest in Greece as a major oil and gas source, as well as convenient military base, could lead to the US supporting Greece in the case of a Grexit, in order to take control of the rich resources

...

With the corrupt record of Greek politicians thus far, they stand to become rich through the cheap sale of Greece's oil and gas exploration rights. The Greek people are likely to be the losers as the politicians and oil companies bleed the Greek assets dry, for cents on the dollar.

digitaljournal.com/article/329803

MiniTheMinx · 21/03/2013 22:20

I will have a read. It doesn't surprise me. The FED, The WTO and the IMF are the three faces of corporate fascism. That's why the likes of Chavez and Evo Morales wouldn't touch their loans and bailouts and advice.

claig · 21/03/2013 22:57

An article by F. William Engdahl says

Tulane University oil expert David Hynes told an audience in Athens recently that Greece could potentially solve its entire public debt crisis through development of its new-found gas and oil. He conservatively estimates that exploitation of the reserves already discovered could bring the country more than ?302 billion over 25 years. The Greek government instead has just been forced to agree to huge government layoffs, wage cuts and pension cuts to get access to a second EU and IMF loan that will only drive the country deeper into an economic decline

Notably, the IMF and EU governments, among them Germany, demand instead that Greece sell off its valuable ports and public companies, among them of course, Greek state oil companies to reduce state debt. Under the best of conditions the asset selloffs would bring the country perhaps ?50 billion. [5] Plans call for the Greek state-owned natural gas company, DEPA, to privatize 65% of its shares to reduce debt. [6] Buyers would likely come from outside the country, as few Greek companies are in a position in the crisis to take it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._William_Engdahl

In all the BBC news reports on the Greek crisis, I ahve never heard any BBC news reports on any of these issues. Maybe I missed them, but I watch Newsnight alot.

claig · 21/03/2013 23:04

Sprry, link for above article is from the left wing site globalresearch which I think is run by the very clever Professor Chussodovsky.

www.globalresearch.ca/the-new-mediterranean-oil-and-gas-bonanza/29609

I like Engdahl because he agrees with what I think about the global warming scam and its objectives, unlike Parenti who in typical socialist fashion believes in it.

The quote below is from the wikipedia article on Engdahl

He claims that global warming, like peak oil, is merely a "scare" and a "thinly veiled attempt to misuse climate to argue for a new Malthusian reduction of living standards for the majority of the world while a tiny elite gains more power

claig · 21/03/2013 23:15

Sorry that is Professor Chossudovsky

claig · 21/03/2013 23:26

Actually I don't think globalresearch is left wing. They say they are independent. I read it a few times years ago and thought it was left wing so gave it a miss. But there is good stuff on there.

Xenia · 22/03/2013 09:24

Some of these countries have been running themselves in a way that if any family did they would be homeless and bankrupt. Spain spent money it did not have like there was no tomorrow. Ireland had huge building projects that were never realistic. In Greece 90% of doctors and lawyers declared about £5k a year income for tax purposes. These countries are getting their comeuppance now as are the voters who voted these regimes in.

flatbread · 22/03/2013 09:47

Land and Spain were running fiscal surplus before the crisis.

Greece is cont comparable to those two, it is a myth that all these countries are paying from their own irresponsibility.

Spain and Ireand would have been better off with thir n currency to devalue and inflate their way out of the crisis (as UK and US are doing)

Interesting analysis from the Economist

www.economist.com/node/21536871

PigletJohn · 22/03/2013 09:59

It's very noticable that the Cypriots I hear on the radio, and the Greeks before them, seem to be taking the attitude that it's not fair somebody won't bail them out and make everything all right, with no cost in money, effort, or change in behaviour.

Sadly they blame the Germans (who have always paid the lion's share of the cost of European bale-outs) for being mean.

Xenia · 22/03/2013 10:10

Indeed. I was going to say it was a lazy Southern warm country thing which it is to an extent but there is also the Irish and the the Icelanders

flatbread · 22/03/2013 10:12

What exactly did the Cypriot common man do that was wrong?

They did not ask for euro interest rates to be kept so low that it woud fuel a debt spend

They did not ask for their banks to invest in Greek bonds

They did not ask for the value of these Greek sovereign bonds to be cut in half as a condition of the EU Greek bail-out.

Our country has similar issues of a gigantic financial sector and cheap debt fuelled property boom. If George Osborne decided to dip his hand into my bank account and take 10%, I would be seriously pissed. (ok, it being done by stealth through inflation anyway, but that is still a bit different than direct theft)

I am financially conservative and a saver. Why on earth should I (or the common man in Cyprus) be punished for being prudent and have saving confiscated, to pay for the sins of the central and private bankers?

Xenia · 22/03/2013 10:15

May be a few hints in here about the common Cypriot and the work culture there (and he would have voted in politicians who led the country into its current mess).

"Working in Cyprus
Expats will find working in Cyprus is largely complicated by the large population of pensioners with a penchant for rest and relaxation and the year-round nearly perfect weather. Neither factor encourages a strong work ethic nor a thriving economy, but nonetheless, expats determined to live and work in Cyprus can still find a few opportunities.

working in CyprusIt follows that the tourism industry accounts for the largest percent of the country's GDP, with trade centres in the South supporting a stronger market than their Northern neighbours. Overall, the industry did suffer a setback at the hands of the global economic crises, but nonetheless, the market for sunseekers and holidaymakers remains buoyant and expats tend to be most successful at acquiring jobs in the hotel, catering and hospitality sector. Positions are more plentiful in the summer months during peak tourist season.

English-speaking expats can often make due in this industry without having to know Greek, however, wages tend to be low. As a result, many of the positions are occupied by Eastern European expats who find the salary more than satisfactory.

Alongside the tourism sector, the property market offers opportunity and the nation's affinity for agricultural output also creates space for fruit-picking work. Teaching English is also a possibility, but demand for these positions far outweighs supply.

Expats who do succeed in finding a job in Cyprus often must settle for a lower wage than expected. In the past the low cost of living was the means that justified this end, but now Cyprus has become more costly and salaries don't seem to have risen accordingly.

Finding a job in Cyprus

The majority of jobs in Cyprus demand some knowledge of Greek. Those expats that do speak the language, and even those that don't, will find that the best method of finding employment opportunities is through networking.

Entrusting yourself to valuable personal contacts and effectively tapping into the finding a job in Cyprusright word-of-mouth channels can be far more worthwhile than pouring over the English language newspapers (the Cyprus Mail and the Cyprus Weekly). Still, these print publications and a handful of online resources can still be good starting points and can generate good leads.

When applying for a job in Cyprus it's best to turn in your CV in person and to try to discuss your skill set face-to-face with the employer. Cypriots tend to be family-orientated and protective over the local labour market; thus cultivating even the most basic interpersonal relationship can go a long way.

Cyprus joined the European Union (EU) in 2004, thus EU citizens do not need a work permit to work in Cyprus. All other nationalities do need a work permit, which is best organised prior to arrival.

Work etiquette in Cyprus

Business should be conducted in person; phone calls, emails and other forms of communication are thought of as impersonal and thus unimportant.
Developing a relationship is paramount in Cyprus. Expect lots of face-to-face meetings, lunches, dinners and even work-related social outings.
Appointments are necessary in Cyprus and punctuality is expected; although, don't be suprised if you're kept waiting, if the topic at hand is not addressed, and if no decision is made during the duration of the meeting.
Bargaining is a way of life in Cyprus - negotiations can be lengthy and proposals should be designed to leave room for concessions. That said, once a contract is in place it is followed devoutly.
Dress is typically European - dark suits of a conservative nature for both men and women.
Business hours are generally 8am to 6pm, with a two hour break for lunch."
flatbread · 22/03/2013 10:22

So, because the Cypriots like two hour lunches they deserve to have their country financially decimated???

Well, then the French should be next, as they love their lunch, and, gasp, even have wine during business lunches.

PigletJohn · 22/03/2013 11:41

"have their country financially decimated???"

You're talking as if somebody is taking 6.7% of their money away.

In fact, their banks are insolvent, and somebody is offering to bail them out so that they get more than 93% of their money back.

When UK banks were on the verge of collapse, UK taxpayers bailed them out.

If the Cypriot taxpayer is not willing and able to bail out Cypriot banks, either somebody else does it, or they collapse.

The option of having a good fairy fly in, and solve the Cyprus problems at no cost to the Cypriot, is unrealistic.

MiniTheMinx · 22/03/2013 11:48

Just noticed this and wanted to comment

"Ireland had huge building projects that were never realistic"

Xenia have you noticed what Osborne has done in the budget? Now tell me that one of the ways that capitalism solves its crisis IS NOT by building? Please explain why Paris was rebuilt? and what the heck was going on in Dubai ? Please explain why the slums are cleared in India and why we have peasant uprisings all over the globe? If you don't know, it is because huge capital surpluses must be reinvested, the money is then lent to ordinary people to buy this housing, again you have a classic cycle of capital accumulation, it stimulates growth but creates huge wealth inequality with debt overhangs and housing/land commodity bubbles. Of course using building to sup up capital surplus works in the short term, in the 50's the amount of companies making lawn mowers trebled ! house ownership boomed but so did personal debt.

flatbread · 22/03/2013 12:23

UK could bail-out banks by printing money.

Cypriot cannot, as it does not have an independent currency.

Really, the most viable long-term solution is to stick their finger to the euro and do an Iceland.

MoreBeta · 22/03/2013 14:03

flatbread - yes they should do that and it is the right thing for Cyprus to do and the only reason the EU is pressuring them not to do that is because every other PIIGS country might get the idea they should as well. That would destroy the ECB, all the German banks, the Euro and ultimately the EU.

EU bureacrats and politicians would then be out of a very nice high paid job. I can see why they dont want it to happen.

PigletJohn · 22/03/2013 14:21

MoreBeta

You want to see the collapse of the bank you keep your savings in?

flatbread · 22/03/2013 14:41

Piglet, the Icelanders did it. And they are fine now.

You seem to see it as a one time deposit grab. But it isn't. For one, there is nothing to stop the government from taking another 10% from your account next month.

People get that, and once the government did take money from depositors, every rational depositor would withdraw money leading to a bank collapse anyway.

Pointless exercise dreamt up by some EZ morons

Best to let the banks fail, decouple from Euro and devalue and print money to keep domestic depositors nominally intact.

MoreBeta · 22/03/2013 15:11

Piglet - protect ordinary depositors and use standard bankruptcy law to deal with shareholders and other creditors and sell of assets. As flatbread says, Iceland did it and they are doing well now.

I hope Cyprus has been in touch with the Iceland President and asked for his advice. He is very clear and lucid on what they did, why they they did it and how well it worked.

Ireland on the other hand, did not allow its banks to fail and instead bailed them all out with taxpayers money. The country is still overburdened with debt they will never be able to repay.

Grabbing ordinary depositors' cash or just taxing them in some other way to repay sophisticated international investors is just not on at all.

MoreBeta · 24/03/2013 16:09

Update onwhere we are on this story and to be frank it isnt looking good.

Cyprus Parliament agreed on Friday to impose capital controls to stop money leaving the country when banke reopen on Tuesday. It also agreed to split up Bank of Cyprus and LAIKI Bank into 'Good Banks and Bad Banks'. ECB threatens to withdrasw all support by Monday if we dont see a deal.

Cyprus Parliament is stil debating how and when and whether to impose loosses on depositors and bond holders. IMF and Germany are in the driving seat and the room for compromise is limited. Stpry is that Germany thinks that it can weather the storm of a Cyprus defaults and use it to set a precedent meanwhile IMF keep finding a bigger and bigger figure (latest Euro 6.8 billion) that depositors wil have to cover.

The Icelandic solution and Cyprus issuing its own currency looks ever more likely.

A left field solution is that UK civil servants have flown out there and I know this wont happen but I think the UK could rescue the economy of Cyprus in retirn for a long lease on a militray base, airport and exclusive negotiating rights on gas fields with gas been sold at international market prices if found. It would give us a very useful base in the Med which woudl allow us to cntrol North Africa and Middle East and handily allow surveilance and combat aircraft to take off and land without the need for an aircrat carrier. I think that is worth an annual £1 billion out of our overseas aid budget and frankly bring Cyprus into the remit fo the Bank of England and offer the Pound Sterling as their replacement currency.

There is a real danger Cyprus is taken over by criminality of all kinds. If we dont take care it could become a failed state like so many Carribean islands.

MiniTheMinx · 24/03/2013 16:14

Have any of our civil servants flown out? sorry didn't understand that bit morebeta I guess if it were beneficial for the Russians, why not us. So much of our gas comes from Russia doesn't it?

MoreBeta · 24/03/2013 16:51

Yes some of our civil servants have flown out to just offer advice.

I think we should be offering more given THAN THAT given the long historical links.

tiggytape · 24/03/2013 17:47

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