Minimum pricing for alcohol

[juneau]

A good idea or yet another example of the nanny state?

It's both, I suppose, but as someone who only ever drinks moderately and who thinks the cost of alcohol in this country is already ridiculous, thanks to all the duty slapped on by the chancellor, I resent the idea that I'll have to pay more for my modest intake just because others can't control themselves. The rebel in me is getting pretty fed up with being told what I can and can't do too, as a tax-paying, consenting, adult.

I also question whether it will have much, if any, impact. After all, if you're an alcoholic, is a modest price increase really going to make you stop drinking?

'I met David Icke once, he was carrying a huge crucifix with a wheel on.'

Smudging, tell us more, please.

We weren't off our heads in the park on cider at 15 because the pub would serve us. WE could only afford one or two drinks at pub prices, never got drunk, kept warm and the older Rugby club lads and various older siblings kept an eye on us.

Way better than pretending teens don't drink.

i just dont get your reasoning claig - i think you are actually an inverted snob - what is all this crap about 'poor people'? do you really think that just because a person is hard up that they will buy cans of super strength lager or huge bottles of revolting cider? they are hard up, not alcohol dependent! we are talking about the price per unit, so far as i can see a bottle of reasonable wine would go up by about 50p, so 'poor people' could possibly afford one now and again, those without a drink problem that is!

'what is all this crap about 'poor people'?'

I am not a snob of any sort. I don't look down on cider and call it "revolting", I like it and I drink it. Not everybody likes wine. Some people prefer cider and prefer beer. These are precisely the drinks that will rise in price.

I am for freedom and not for a nanny state. I don't want elites to interfere in the lives of ordinary people and to raise their cost of living in any way.

I, along with millions of others, vote Tory precisely because they are not progressive nanny staters, and then to witness them being more progressive than the ninnies, is disappointing. Fortunately, we do have some Tory MPs who are rebelling on this issue too.

oh come on!! you know perfectly well (or do you? ) we are not talking about a lovely bottle of premium chilled cider! we are talking about the huge bottles of nasty, cheap, pile 'em high, sell them to kids/drunks/winos shit that most supermarkets stock, the range of 'get pissed quick' super strength lager that is the preferred choice of the street drinker - this is bugger all to do with being 'progressive' (whatever that means) and everything to with promoting sensible, enjoyable, sociable drinking!

'i just dont get your reasoning claig'

Can you really not understand the other point of view. I understand teh progressives and their nanny state views on public health etc., but I disagree with them.

On 'This Week' just now the ex LibDem adviser Miranda Green just said why woukd Cameron propose a policy that a large section of the libertarian right in his party would not agree with. Can you not understand that they don't agree with artificial price fixing of markets, of social engineering which affects the lives of people. This sort of nanny state nincompoopery is not something that most Tories agree with. It is an own goal and will put Tory voters off their own party. It goes against the fundamental beliefs and principles of most Tories who believe that elites should get off the backs of the people. That's why we turned out in great numbers at polling booths to vote New Labour out.

'we are not talking about a lovely bottle of premium chilled cider! we are talking about the huge bottles of nasty, cheap, pile 'em high, sell them to kids/drunks/winos shit that most supermarkets stock, the range of 'get pissed quick' super strength lager that is the preferred choice of the street drinker'

I have worked in jobs for minimum wage and jobs that pay high salaries, and when I was on minimum wage I had to cut my cloth accordingly. I was pleased that there was cheap booze and I don't appreciate millionaires with expenses for bath plugs telling me what is good for me and telling me that I am not allowed to buy 3 for 2 of anything I like. This is not the Soviet Union, this is not a progressive paradise, this is Great Britain.

im going to bed! i rest my case after your last almost incomprehensible post!

btw - i think UKIP might be the way forward for you!

Does the existing system of having duty on fuel, tobacco, alcohol and gambling machines, not count as artificial price fixing of markets, or as social engineering which affects the lives of people?

The Tories don't seem too keen on abolishing those.

'i think UKIP might be the way forward for you'

I'll vote for any party that keeps the nanny state progressives out

Most Tories want these taxes reduced. We want lower taxes for people and a lower cost of living. We don't want a big state taxing us and charging us and telling us what is good for us. We believe that people are adults and are responsible people who have the right to choose what they want to do without the state taxing them at every turn.

We don't believe that the state should tell us that we can't buy 3 for 2 packs of anything. We are not children. We voted these people in and that is what we get for it.

What will they do next? Tell us we can't buy 3 for 2 chocolate bars and maxi bags of crisps because of the strain it puts on the health service? That is New Labour, that is not what we voted Tory for,

Andrew Neil said to Miranda Green on This Week that it seems that Cameron shoots from teh hip and doesn't think things through. There is opposition to his alcohol policy from within his own party and lots of Tory voters will be against it and yet he still insists he wants to go ahead with it. Instead of sorting out the dire economy, this is what he insists on doing.

"What will they do next? Tell us we can't buy 3 for 2 chocolate bars and maxi bags of crisps because of the strain it puts on the health service?"

Completely off-topic, but have you seen the recent think tank idea? DM article

This think tank is suggesting that people who have a healthy lifestyle and eat lots of fruit and veg should get to queue jump NHS waiting lists. Slightly different to banning 3 for 2 chocolate bars and giant bags of crisps, but same ballpark.

I agree and of course these things are coming. I disagree with them and so do many Tories, but the progressive think tanks paid for by someone think these things up for ordinary people. Together Labour and the Tories created workfare and welfare cuts and pension age increases and so on and of course they will do what their think tanks are saying. But most Tories disagree with their carrot and stick social engineering nanny state control policies. But what can we do? Whoever you vote for, a progressive always gets in.

This is teh second highest rated comment on the Mail for that article

'Are we now to expect the government to vet our shopping bills? Whatever next! And will they follow us everywhere to make sure we are all taking our daily jog? Get lost, for Heavens' sakes.'

That is what most Tories think, but what can we do? They do as they please. They take our votes and then ignore us.

Just looked at who the think tank that produced that report was, and it is Demos. No surprise there. This is what wikipedia says about Demos

'Demos was founded in 1993 by former Marxism Today editor Martin Jacques, and Geoff Mulgan, who became its first director. It was formed in response to what Mulgan, Jacques and others saw as a crisis in politics in Britain, with voter engagement in decline and political institutions unable in their view to adapt to major social changes. Demos was conceived as a network of networks which could draw together different sources of ideas and expertise to improve public policy.[1]

In the run up to the 1997 general election it was seen as being close to the Labour Party, in particular its then leader Tony Blair. It defines itself, however, as independent of any political party.[2] Geoff Mulgan went on to work inside Downing Street in 1997. At that time Demos was seen as central to New Labour's vision for Britain.[3]'

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demos_(UK_think_tank)

It sounds pretty progressive to me, and here is something on 'The Progressive Conservatism Project' from their website. In my opinion 'progressive conservatism' is an oxymoron, but whoever you vote for, a progressive always gets in, so I guess that is what we will one day have to look forward to.

www.demos.co.uk/projects/progressiveconservatism

"An army of MNers switching from 14% wine to 11% wine in order to keep their cost below four quid will give measurable decreases in breast cancer, bowel cancer and dementia rates."

I drink a fair bit of wine, never beer or spirits so would welcome lower alcohol strength wine at a lower duty rate.

To be honest in recent years wine producers have upped alcohol content to 'improve' favaour but I prefer lower alcohol wines as more every day drinkable. Simple country wines at 8% alcohol like you can buy in mainland Europe have 1/3 less alcohol but just as enjoyable with a lunch time meal in my view.

By the way the issue of 'toffs' quaffing wine while the poor pay more for their beer is not quite the biggest scandal.

What is more shocking is the number of bars, cafes and restaurants in the Houses of Parliament with heavily subsidised food and drink prices for all MPs and Lords of all parties. This is hardly going to touch MPs and Lords.

Our lawmakers should not be getting subsidised food and drink while the rest of us pay ever more. No wonder they dont care about the rising cost of living an dtaxes. They never see the impact.

A long running campaign by Guido Fawkes has exposed the amount of subsidy there is on food and drink in the Houses of Parliament.

'Everyone was just saying is it Joycey, is it Joycey?'

It seems that it was indeed 'Joycey'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2293616/MP-Eric-Joyce-arrested-following-late-night-altercation-House-Commons-bar.html

I wonder if he treated different to ordinary members of the public?

Most Tories want these taxes reduced. (duty on fuel, tobacco, alcohol and gambling machines) We want lower taxes for people and a lower cost of living. We don't want a big state taxing us and charging us and telling us what is good for us. We believe that people are adults and are responsible people who have the right to choose what they want to do without the state taxing them at every turn.

Why don't they legalize drugs then? A lot of illegal drugs seem to do a lot less harm than the legal ones.

'What is more shocking is the number of bars, cafes and restaurants in the Houses of Parliament with heavily subsidised food and drink prices for all MPs and Lords of all parties. This is hardly going to touch MPs and Lords.

Our lawmakers should not be getting subsidised food and drink while the rest of us pay ever more. No wonder they dont care about the rising cost of living an dtaxes. They never see the impact.'

EXACTLY!