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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Hilary Mantel makes a good point

544 replies

juneau · 19/02/2013 08:15

She shouldn't have said it, since it's bitchy and uncalled for (and I actually find HM rather odd, if I'm honest), but after a good couple of years in the media spotlight I struggle to think of one thing the Duchess of Cambridge thinks or believes in. She never gives an opinion, she barely speaks, she just looks pretty and smiles.

OP posts:
specialsubject · 19/02/2013 17:58

royalty is a bizarre anomaly, but the abuse that Hilary Mantel has just dealt out to someone who cannot respond beggars belief. The D of C is prevented from expressing an opinion by her position.

comparing her with the psychotic and spendthrift Diana makes no sense either.

We don't know what the Queen thinks or believes in (apart from god), either. She's been around a lot longer.

An author should be able to express herself more clearly.

Mantel should try exercising her brain more and her jaw muscles less.

ComposHat · 19/02/2013 18:08

special have you read the article or listened to the podcast of the lecture, or are you just going from the Daily Heil's article?

you take the trouble to do the former you'll find Hilary Mantel has engaged her brain to produce a very rational and well argued piece about the body of female totals throughout history.

garlicbreeze · 19/02/2013 18:10

Eldritch, I'm glad you posted Mantel's final paragraph as I've just abandoned her essay about halfway through. She's got a point or two but I read with mounting irritation at what felt to me like a shallow, mean-minded caricature of royalty and what it symbolises. The voice in my head sounded unctuous, empty of meaning and spoken through sneering lips.

I've got no gripe with Kate. I'm not that interested in her, tbh, but she gives the impression of significantly more intelligence than the hallowed Diana and a more pragmatic grasp of her position. I like her humour, such as she's shown, and her little humanities like taking her shoes off to walk on the sand and exposing a pair of utterly normal tits. To me, her eyes are not "dead" but careful - as they should be! Only an emotionally vulnerable girl with terrible boundaries would spew her feelings all over such a very public role, as Diana did. Kate should have learned from her MIL and, it seems, has done so.

I met Diana. She was, in truth, extraordinarily beautiful, unpretentious and very sweet. She was in entirely the wrong job. To me, she looked like a sacrifice on the day she got engaged. Throughout her career, I kept urging her image on the telly to take control, get a therapist, get some distance. She wasn't a saint. She was a young woman out of her depth. That she did her best, and did a lot of good, wasn't enough to save her. If I were marrying her son, I am quite sure both he and I would be anxious I should learn from her mistakes - and be up to the demands of the job.

I think Mantel's been most unkind to Kate, in the peculiar way that the envious or awestruck frequently are to those they examine. I really enjoyed her depiction of Charles as his suit, but how pathetic to be shocked that there were stacks of chairs in an empty, adjacent room! That told me Mantel herself is overwhelmed by the pomp; the glamour: the Prince is in an Ordinary Building! Gosh! She assumes such things must lead Charles to view his life as an expensive overlay of gloss upon mundanity. I think the author doth project too much.

She's wrong about Marie Antionette, too, except that she had a certain amount in common with Diana. The girl was impossibly young, sheltered and simply wanted things to go well. They didn't, obviously. I want a better experience and a better outcome for Kate; forcing her into a frilly, pretty, saintly "Princess" role would be nothing less than a hideous reprise of earlier mistakes. Luckily for her, I think she's got the brains and strength of character to resist the pink frilly frocks and platinum locks of fairy tales.

Look, I wrote my own essay Blush

PuffPants · 19/02/2013 18:13

Cassarick, is your friend or her DH in receipt of taxpayers' money? Has your friend voluntarily assumed the role of a public figure, in full understanding of what that entails - ie.serve your country and make a difference? She has had a decade of playing wifey (in all but name), I assumed the wedding would be the beginning of something more significant.

I just see that KM has an incredible opportunity to do something meaningful, a chance most of us would relish, no? Yet she chooses to hang around the palace, planning holidays and picking her outfits. She could make such a difference to so many charities by simply turning up, lending a hand, having her picture taken and writing some blurb for their brochure. It's not even hard to care and do good, is it?

fossil971 · 19/02/2013 18:22

But we have no idea that she hangs around the palace all day choosing outfits and holidays? You've fallen into the trap of equating the person, with what the media reports about them. Which is exactly what Hilary Mantel was saying.

garlicbreeze · 19/02/2013 18:25

I've not kept up with her health, but isn't she pregnant with problems? Wouldn't most women keep a low profile under the circs, assuming they could afford to?

According to People magazine, the pregnant Duchess is due to visit the port of Grimsby, in the North East of England, where she?ll be shown the local work of Prince Charles' well known charity, the Prince?s Trust. Kate is then rumoured to be heading to a local school on March 5 where she?ll take part in a history lesson on the local fishing industry of the area. But that?s not all for the nation?s sweetheart, she?s also attending a treatment centre run by one of her own charities, Action on Addiction, this week.

Three days' work (with travel) in a week. Two charities. Not so shabby.

KatyTheCleaningLady · 19/02/2013 18:26

I didn't think that what HM said was a personal attack at all. She was talking about KM as an entity, an icon, and a royal.

I have to admit, there is something a bit odd about the fact that I don't know a damn thing about KM. I know she's pretty. I know she and her husband are very much in love. It would seem that she is incredibly self-possessed and level-headed because she handles the pressure so well. But, she doesn't seem like a real person.

garlicbreeze · 19/02/2013 18:26

I beg your pardon, that's longer than a week.

What Fossil said, anyway Grin

BOF · 19/02/2013 18:29

Garlic, it sounds like you read a completely different article to the one I read. I'm stunned at your take on it, and not in a good way Wink.

garlicbreeze · 19/02/2013 18:29

Katy, I understood that Mantel would like you to examine why you want to know all that about her.

Got to say I don't care, mind you! I don't like what we spend on the royals, but I don't see them as national pets or celebrities. As long as they get out there and sell stuff, promote some charities and try not to rub people's noses in their privilege too much, good luck to 'em ... until the revolution Wink

garlicbreeze · 19/02/2013 18:31

Stunned, BOF? Cor. I don't think anyone's been stunned by a critique of mine since sixth form!

I really need to get off here, anyway. I'll leave Ms mantel for another long afternoon ...

BOF · 19/02/2013 18:36

I'm sure she is quaking in her boots Grin

TunipTheVegedude · 19/02/2013 18:39

Wow, mean-minded? I didn't think so at all; I think Mantel is an extraordinarily acute observer and has the self-knowledge to be perceptive about her own reactions, which adds another layer to an already complex essay.

The dead eyes are in the painting - Mantel is talking about how Kate is represented, not how she is as a person.

No idea why anyone would conclude that Mantel is 'envious' unless they had taken away their main impression from the DM article rather than the full text.

LineRunner · 19/02/2013 18:43

Hilary Mantel is criticising us as we let the shitty press make us become, not 'the Princess William' (as I have decided I would now like to call her for a bit).

LineRunner · 19/02/2013 18:44

Actually the media's presentation of all this proves Mantel's point.

pofacedplot · 19/02/2013 18:46

More misogynistic vitriol spewed all over the internet about Mantel in response to an article I doubt any of the accusers have read. Deeply depressing.

garlicbreeze · 19/02/2013 18:50

Clod-hopping back in when I should be washing my hair ... I didn't read the Mail article, only half of the essay plus the paragraph Eldritch posted here. The eyes of the portrait don't look dead to me; they look twinkly. I've not seen it in RL, though, so a lot would depend on the image one was looking at (iyswim). I've never had the impression Kate looks dead-eyed, neither that people in general do. Not that it matters what I or anybody else thinks about her eyes.

Here's the clod-hop: I found Mantel's essay rather anti-feminist and odd in many other unexpected ways. She seems to be objectifying the very people she asks us not to objectify. She seems (to me) to be projecting her ishoos onto her readership, as well as Prince Chas.

Argh, I'm getting way too engaged with this now! My hair's filthy!!

garlicbreeze · 19/02/2013 18:50

BOF Grin

expatinscotland · 19/02/2013 18:51

Monarchy is such an outdated concept.

Viviennemary · 19/02/2013 18:53

I agree with what Hilary Mantel is saying. It's the whole concept of this decorative figurehead being dusted down and clothed beautifully, to perform certain duties. The more I think about it the more I disagree with the whole concept of royalty. Especially royalty as it is in this country. I don't think it's a personal attack on Kate as an attack on the 'set-up'.

merrymouse · 19/02/2013 18:54

Article sounds interesting. Was she being vitriolic and judgemental or just stating fact?

Kate is better known for her clothes than her opinions or achievements. That might be her job, and that's fine. She seems to be doing her job well. It's still a strange job to have.

One comment on daily mail though. Pot, kettle.

KatyTheCleaningLady · 19/02/2013 18:55

Kate is better known for her clothes than her opinions or achievements. That might be her job, and that's fine. She seems to be doing her job well. It's still a strange job to have.

Yes! This, exactly!

TunipTheVegedude · 19/02/2013 18:58

Maybe you should read the other half GB? Smile

Not really fair to say such nasty things about Mantel when you admit yourself you haven't actually read half of her argument.

TunipTheVegedude · 19/02/2013 18:59

'Monarchy is such an outdated concept.'

You're not wrong there!

pofacedplot · 19/02/2013 19:08

It is not anti-feminist in the least. KM and the team around her have deliberately cultivated a persona that is the very antithesis of Diana - whom the press labelled as mad and unstable. Mantel's analysis, within a historical context, is an acute observation of 'the paper doll in which newspapers have imprisoned the real Kate Middleton.' as Sam Leith phrases it in his Guardian Blog
here